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Interface How we plan to improve ForumBuildr!

Evil Trout

MODERATOR
Avatar: 35 2013-08-13 11:47:18 -0400

[Crotch Zombie]

Level 21 Hacker

I have ample evidence that ET is a weedy little twerp.

Right now there’s a few problems with ForumBuildr. The main one I think is that there are simply too many items to vote on in a given week. I used to vote on every single submission but during the last two weeks that’s been impossible. At our last Crotch Zombie meeting, we discussed some changes we think will improve ForumBuildr. I figure we’ll put them out there and see what you guys think!

The first thing we’d like to do is limit how many submissions you can make in a week. Right now, some players are submitting over 100 items! Also, the fact that there’s no limit makes it a lot easier to submit just any old crap, which reduces the quality of submissions and votes.

We’d like to add a ForumBuildr score to players, that could go up or down any week based on how their contributions were voted. As your score goes up, you can submit more things in a week. If it goes down, it lowers them.

Finally, we want to prevent people from submitting in the last 24 hours of the week. Our stats show that pretty much nothing submitted on the last day has a chance of making it in, so it will be useful to increase votes on the existing material.

Thoughts?

Corion

Avatar: Emo Kid Thinking
8

Level 32 Emo Kid

I lost at domination?! How could this happen to me?

Sounds good!

What about copycats?

I.e. people who won’t submit anything for the first few hours/days so they can rip off the current ideas? I think there’s a lot of people who downvote things off the list and resubmit the idea right now.

Also, you can steal and edit Logos and CSS pretty easily too. Any plans for protecting submitted work?

SeXxyYiFF4U

Avatar: Denim Skirt
9

Level 35 Camwhore

“Legs Wide Open”

Chocolate scoops should be gotten through other means. A certain clan or two is exploiting the heck out of ‘em.

fallingeastw-
ard

Avatar: Leather Boots
4

[Team Shortbus]

Level 10 Camwhore

I'M BETTER THAN EVIL TROUT AT HALO 3

Finally Log in to see images!

Can’t wait to start voting again.

Jalapeno Boo-
tyhole

MODERATOR
Avatar: 44 2012-11-06 12:31:55 -0500

[Crotch Zombie]

Level 44 Emo Kid

I had the first bum avatar.

Corion Posted:

Sounds good!

What about copycats?

I.e. people who won’t submit anything for the first few hours/days so they can rip off the current ideas? I think there’s a lot of people who downvote things off the list and resubmit the idea right now.

Also, you can steal and edit Logos and CSS pretty easily too. Any plans for protecting submitted work?

We are trying to keep track of these cheating-bum whores, and hopefully can have some intelligent software in place to do it for us.

We also plan to create a simple code of conduct for Forumbuildr and warn users that copycatting will result in eternal banishment.

Serial downvoters (who are WAY off the standard deviation of negative voting) will also be warned.

We’re open to other suggestions, of course!

Bigguyinblack

Avatar: Bigguyinblack's Avatar
4

[Mock TSB]

Level 10 Troll

i'm so lonely... i have no friends... plz help...

Is there a way to track voting by clan or is it even against the rules to have your clan members vote on your submission?

Jalapeno Boo-
tyhole

MODERATOR
Avatar: 44 2012-11-06 12:31:55 -0500

[Crotch Zombie]

Level 44 Emo Kid

I had the first bum avatar.

Bigguyinblack Posted:

Is there a way to track voting by clan or is it even against the rules to have your clan members vote on your submission?

It is definitely something we should look into: Klan-based voting, and how much of an unfair effect it has.

Jalapeno Boo-
tyhole

MODERATOR
Avatar: 44 2012-11-06 12:31:55 -0500

[Crotch Zombie]

Level 44 Emo Kid

I had the first bum avatar.

Evil Trout Posted:

Right now there’s a few problems with ForumBuildr. The main one I think is that there are simply too many items to vote on in a given week. I used to vote on every single submission but during the last two weeks that’s been impossible. At our last Crotch Zombie meeting, we discussed some changes we think will improve ForumBuildr. I figure we’ll put them out there and see what you guys think!

The first thing we’d like to do is limit how many submissions you can make in a week. Right now, some players are submitting over 100 items! Also, the fact that there’s no limit makes it a lot easier to submit just any old crap, which reduces the quality of submissions and votes.

We’d like to add a ForumBuildr score to players, that could go up or down any week based on how their contributions were voted. As your score goes up, you can submit more things in a week. If it goes down, it lowers them.

Finally, we want to prevent people from submitting in the last 24 hours of the week. Our stats show that pretty much nothing submitted on the last day has a chance of making it in, so it will be useful to increase votes on the existing material.

Thoughts?

Incidentally, I believe we’re going to make -4 the threshold where your submission disappears. It was at -3 before, people complained, Trout made it -5, but now I’m thinking -4 might be a happy medium.

It means five people thought it was ****ty before it got voted up, because it defaults at +1.

BINGEBOT 2015

Avatar: 38 2010-12-05 22:39:25 -0500

Level 12 Troll

I AM A GIANT FART FACE

Jalapeno Bootyhole Posted:

It is definitely something we should look into: Klan-based voting, and how much of an unfair effect it has.

Yeah we discussed not allowing users to vote (or even see) submissions from members of their Klan.

Corion

Avatar: Emo Kid Thinking
8

Level 32 Emo Kid

I lost at domination?! How could this happen to me?

The Other Other Hole Posted:

Yeah we discussed not allowing users to vote (or even see) submissions from members of their Klan.

This is a pretty decent idea, but it wouldn’t stop them from downvoting everything else.

I think this halfway-reduction in klan-item vote differences would be a pretty fair rule to have in place.

Or perhaps every clan vote for an item would not be tallied in the chocolate scoop counter for the content author, and would result in a deduction of the flezz the person receives for winning.

Corion edited this message on 03/05/2008 12:26AM

Corion

Avatar: Emo Kid Thinking
8

Level 32 Emo Kid

I lost at domination?! How could this happen to me?

Jalapeno Bootyhole Posted:

It means five people thought it was ****ty before it got voted up, because it defaults at +1.

What if those 5 users happen to be bumholes? I don’t think there’s really a happy medium for completely excluding an item.

What if every upvote while an item was in the negatives counted for twice as much or something like that. Then it would take 5 downvotes in a row and an extra 2 if the item was upvoted by someone else – or some other form of revival for dying ideas. Any idea that is genuinely bad WILL be killed eventually – even some of the 20+ voted logos were knocked off the list.

If players are being limited in how many ideas they can submit per day/week I think having bad ideas on the list will be less of a problem – and users should be able to have a fair chance at their ideas being seen. If all of your ideas are submitted and killed by a wave if re-re’s before they see the light of the general population, that’s not good.

Doh, double post with no delete bumon. FAIL!

Log in to see images! Corion edited this message on 03/05/2008 12:32AM

Jalapeno Boo-
tyhole

MODERATOR
Avatar: 44 2012-11-06 12:31:55 -0500

[Crotch Zombie]

Level 44 Emo Kid

I had the first bum avatar.

Corion Posted:

What if those 5 users happen to be bumholes? I don’t think there’s really a happy medium for completely excluding an item.

Doh, double post with no delete bumon. FAIL!

Log in to see images!

There is a good chance that they`re bumholes, but other than monitoring people`s patterns our hands are tied.

I think with new restrictions people will be a little less downvote-happy. Also, people are less likely to submit weak me-too posts. Let`s see how it goes.

Escher

Avatar: Escher's Avatar
13

[SRSLY]

Level 10 Camwhore

really huge titty ****

Jalapeno Bootyhole Posted:

It means five people thought it was ****ty before it got voted up, because it defaults at +1.

Yeah, but given the people who downvote everything, that can make for kind of a crap shoot. I submitted a forum idea last Thursday and it stuck around, getting +30 votes or so; I resubmitted it on Sunday after the refresh and it died in ten minutes.

For unlimited items, that’s not a big deal; but when you can only offer three forum ideas a week, getting shot down by gamist bumholes is discouraging.

Or my ideas could just suck. I’m well aware of that. Log in to see images!

Jalapeno Boo-
tyhole

MODERATOR
Avatar: 44 2012-11-06 12:31:55 -0500

[Crotch Zombie]

Level 44 Emo Kid

I had the first bum avatar.

Escher Posted:

Yeah, but given the people who downvote everything, that can make for kind of a crap shoot. I submitted a forum idea last Thursday and it stuck around, getting +30 votes or so; I resubmitted it on Sunday after the refresh and it died in ten minutes.

For unlimited items, that’s not a big deal; but when you can only offer three forum ideas a week, getting shot down by gamist bumholes is discouraging.

Or my ideas could just suck. I’m well aware of that. Log in to see images!

Hey man, I feel your pain. I’m supposed to be the creative director of Forumwarz and ****s vote my **** down too, often with no apparent rhyme or reason.

Let’s see how this pans out. We’ll also try to keep track of the “Negative Nellies” better, and discount their votes.

As an admin, I’m tempted to revive some of the obviously good user subs from the dead, but that’s a lot of work. I guess the competitive aspect of this makes people act like jerk-offs.

In the future we plan to have more truly collaborative and not so competitive forums (Klan-based, pool-based, etc), but for now we’re relying on the herd mentality. The forums that emerge are still pretty gold, you gotta admit!

Escher

Avatar: Escher's Avatar
13

[SRSLY]

Level 10 Camwhore

really huge titty ****

Jalapeno Bootyhole Posted:

Hey man, I feel your pain. I’m supposed to be the creative director of Forumwarz and ****s vote my **** down too, often with no apparent rhyme or reason.

Let’s see how this pans out. We’ll also try to keep track of the “Negative Nellies” better, and discount their votes.

As an admin, I’m tempted to revive some of the obviously good user subs from the dead, but that’s a lot of work. I guess the competitive aspect of this makes people act like jerk-offs.

Honestly, I’d rather forum-building be competitive and have occasional jerk-offs than have it be admin-decided. No offense meant to you or your aesthetic sense; it’s just that many of the ‘admin-decided’ collaborative projects I’ve seen turn into politics of ‘who can play up to the admins best’, which sucks.

In the future we plan to have more truly collaborative and not so competitive forums (Klan-based, pool-based, etc), but for now we’re relying on the herd mentality. The forums that emerge are still pretty gold, you gotta admit!

Oh, agreed. My suggested forums still would lose this week anyways. But I wanted moar Chocolate Scoops!!! Log in to see images!

Corion

Avatar: Emo Kid Thinking
8

Level 32 Emo Kid

I lost at domination?! How could this happen to me?

Any good ideas that die you could always use for Episode 2 (though I’m sure you’re well aware.)

I’ve always thought that in a voting system like this there are certain precautions you can add to avoid retards.

1. Give more weight to people who use both upvote and downvote frequently – someone who only downvotes should be effectively castrated from removing an idea, and someone who only upvotes should be taken a little more lightly.

2. Give more weight to the people whose votes agree with the general consensus. If this person appears to just be randomly upvoting/downvoting, nerf them. However, if the person had only been downvoting, but seems to downvote things that would drop off the chart anyway, or by the same token, almost only upvotes things that win, then this should override rule 1.

3. Give more weight to users who have contributed winning or high-scoring ideas. If the person is voting on thread titles and has submitted 12 winning ones already, chances are they know what makes a good thread title.

4. Give more weight to users who vote on a high percentage of the items. If a user just votes on 2 items every week, they’re not really helping the system much. Encourage more participation by crediting active users who don’t get swallowed by rule 1 or 2.

5. Give less weight to users who only vote up on specific users. If there’s a trend that user A ALWAYS (or almost always) votes up on user B’s submissions … pleh. This one’s obvious and you probably have something in place for it already.

It should be noted that by “more” and “less” I don’t mean HUGE values – these would have to start off low and be slowly tweaked to find a good working set.

Also, I think submissions for thread titles/posts should be required to have at least 1 randomized entry in it – or are there safeguards against the same thread ever showing up twice? I have no idea how the system works, but I usually frown on entries with no randomizers in them.

The_root_of_-
all_evil

Avatar: Bug (Microscopic)

Level 7 Troll

“Jerk Chicken”

As an idea, could each vote cost 1 Flezz? And you’re limited to 1 Forum, 1 Scheme, 2 Enemies etc. per week.?

Any klan on the ball can eliminate any good idea that comes in by purely voting it down and even bringing on one shot multis.

lulz56

Avatar: lulz56's Avatar
11

[The Knights of LOL]

Level 21 Camwhore

“Leave it to Cleavage”

First of all I really like the additional features and enhancements constantly coming out. Great job on a great game.

Evil Trout Posted:

Right now there’s a few problems with ForumBuildr. The main one I think is that there are simply too many items to vote on in a given week. I used to vote on every single submission but during the last two weeks that’s been impossible. At our last Crotch Zombie meeting, we discussed some changes we think will improve ForumBuildr. I figure we’ll put them out there and see what you guys think!

The first thing we’d like to do is limit how many submissions you can make in a week. Right now, some players are submitting over 100 items! Also, the fact that there’s no limit makes it a lot easier to submit just any old crap, which reduces the quality of submissions and votes.

We’d like to add a ForumBuildr score to players, that could go up or down any week based on how their contributions were voted. As your score goes up, you can submit more things in a week. If it goes down, it lowers them.

Finally, we want to prevent people from submitting in the last 24 hours of the week. Our stats show that pretty much nothing submitted on the last day has a chance of making it in, so it will be useful to increase votes on the existing material.

Thoughts?

I personally don’t think that supporting Klan members is a bad thing. That is how the world works. You support your kind. There are in my estimate somewhere around 15k characters. The largest Klan has less than 200 characters. Even with a Klan a bad idea is not gonna make it to far. I was considering getting another character just to bump a few of my votes up to 5 multiples. I wouldnt win that way but maybe get a few extra scoops. BTW my Klans leader is on th record saying she denounces the practice of up voting for members in Forumbuilder.

As for limiting submissions. Yes some people do spam them. But it cant be that many spammers. It appears to me that very few percentage wise even participate. And after wining the game there is not much to do. It takes about 3 min tops to play the core of the game. Four forum visits. Be careful about limiting things outside of this please.

Anyway I agree about a limit just don’t make it to small. 10-20 for each category besides logo design, styles and forum ideas. 1 each there.

As for no submissions in the last day I agree. My stats show the winners are almost always submitted in the first several hours.

I love the idea of a a ForumBuildr score. I am not so sure that it should be related to the number of submissions one can make though. Just the score alone will improve submissions, ad reduce spam.

Corion Posted:

Sounds good!

What about copycats?

I.e. people who won’t submit anything for the first few hours/days so they can rip off the current ideas? I think there’s a lot of people who downvote things off the list and resubmit the idea right now.

Also, you can steal and edit Logos and CSS pretty easily too. Any plans for protecting submitted work?

Copycats are lame. A report bumon could work.

Jalapeno Bootyhole Posted:

Serial downvoters (who are WAY off the standard deviation of negative voting) will also be warned.

We’re open to other suggestions, of course!

I was hoping for a downvote all bumon Log in to see images!

Anyway limiting the number of votes could be effective in many ways. Or just allow upvotes and neutral. Neutral so that you can see what you have already voted for. Oh and report, for copycats.

Jalapeno Bootyhole Posted:

Incidentally, I believe we’re going to make -4 the threshold where your submission disappears. It was at -3 before, people complained, Trout made it -5, but now I’m thinking -4 might be a happy medium.

It means five people thought it was ****ty before it got voted up, because it defaults at +1.

-4 seems fine. I have rarely seen anything resurrected after it gets -2.

Corion Posted:

Any good ideas that die you could always use for Episode 2 (though I’m sure you’re well aware.)

I’ve always thought that in a voting system like this there are certain precautions you can add to avoid retards.

1. Give more weight to people who use both upvote and downvote frequently – someone who only downvotes should be effectively castrated from removing an idea, and someone who only upvotes should be taken a little more lightly.

2. Give more weight to the people whose votes agree with the general consensus. If this person appears to just be randomly upvoting/downvoting, nerf them. However, if the person had only been downvoting, but seems to downvote things that would drop off the chart anyway, or by the same token, almost only upvotes things that win, then this should override rule 1.

3. Give more weight to users who have contributed winning or high-scoring ideas. If the person is voting on thread titles and has submitted 12 winning ones already, chances are they know what makes a good thread title.

4. Give more weight to users who vote on a high percentage of the items. If a user just votes on 2 items every week, they’re not really helping the system much. Encourage more participation by crediting active users who don’t get swallowed by rule 1 or 2.

5. Give less weight to users who only vote up on specific users. If there’s a trend that user A ALWAYS (or almost always) votes up on user B’s submissions … pleh. This one’s obvious and you probably have something in place for it already.

It should be noted that by “more” and “less” I don’t mean HUGE values – these would have to start off low and be slowly tweaked to find a good working set.

Also, I think submissions for thread titles/posts should be required to have at least 1 randomized entry in it – or are there safeguards against the same thread ever showing up twice? I have no idea how the system works, but I usually frown on entries with no randomizers in them.

Before I get started you are not gonna avoid retards. Plus they add an element to the game that I like.

Second I think I know why you chose an Emo kid.

What kind of watered down voting system is this?

Just because you think other peoples ideas suck you should be penalized. **** that. I hate this idea. IT doesn’t even really make a difference the leaders after the fist day pretty much stay the leaders. Hell this game will get bogged down making sure all the kinder gardeners don’t get their feeling hurt.

I want a downvote all bumon. To ensure I down vote all the terrible ideas. Just kidding.

But weighted votes and allowing some people to get moar then others just seems lame to me. I was at a caucus the otherday and someonecane to me and said why I was voting for Mike Gravel. I said I wasnt exactly I was voting against HRC and I will be moving on to Obama later. She said you cant vote against someone. I said watch this and stood with the Obama folks effectively down voting HRC. Down votes are improtant. A total vote limit could be fine but don’t take away the vale of a single vote or give certain people more or less voting power for any reason.

I would like to see:

A generous submission limit.

A neutral bumon So that I can at least see the score of the submission and mark it as read. Instead of forced voting.

A report bumon, for copy violation.

A total vote limit. Around 100-200 or so. And allow me to use all of them how I wish. They are my votes.

A Forumbuilder Score. this alone will improve things greatly.And probably solve most problems.

Blackthorn

Avatar: Guitar Girl
6

Level 18 Camwhore

“Playground Pin-Up”

All of your ideas sound good, Evil Trout. Would the ForumBuildr score be something public or private? Regarding some of the other things people have brought up.

I’m anti-complex weighting system. It’s probably a lot more coding work than it’s worth. Also, I don’t want to have to do calculus to figure out my scores.

I actually like the plain up or down. It forces people to make a choice. Plenty of things can skate by on eh, ok. The forums we build should be as awesome as possible not just ok. If you’re just neutral about something then it’s not good enough.

Blackthorn edited this message on 03/05/2008 5:05AM

Acid Flux

Avatar: 6767 Tue Mar 17 11:41:54 -0400 2009
20

[Country Kitchen an-
d Flea Market
]

Level 35 Troll

KYOUBAI IS SUPER-SERIOUS BUSINESS

Ideally, Klans should be allowed to vote for each other, but since too many people are abusing it and doing it in a concentrated manner, it ****s it up for the rest of us that are trying to play fair. Not to mention that as I’m trying to go for Min Scoop buy earning cards & Lemon Scoops to pay for the cards, I can’t get new Lemon Scoops because of the frakking lag. Four frakking visits to four frakking forums that are difficulty three or less, and because of lag, and the need to ‘refresh’, I didn’t get any lemon Scops,and because one forum locked up totally and & lost a visit for the day, no Pistachio either.

So, yeah, unless the speedrun criteria is going to change from number of seconds to number of actions taken, then the Chocolate Scoops & Forumbuildr affect on Domination needs to change.

I think a daily submission & daily voting limit is more than fair. I.E., 50 votes per player per category, per day, five submissions per day, per player, per category.

Acid Flux edited this message on 03/05/2008 10:31AM
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