spacekadt Posted:

You realize your 37 scoop difference is applied to ALL of your alts in the raid, right? Not just the main that you put into the raid?

If you have 3 chars in the raid, you’re getting the raid scoops times 3. A solo person runs their visits on 3 chars, they get the solo scoops times 3.

Still with me?

EACH of your chars has a 37 scoop advantage. You have the same abilities to bunch alts as the solo raiders. You have exactly the same options. And 37 additional scoops PER CHAR that you raid with.

How is this blatantly unfair to people who choose to klan raid?

Or, you know, how is is any more blatantly unfair that letting people buy their medals which is what is happening today?

Yes, I understand it. But you would still be much better off soloing with a ton of alts and bunching them up than you would be klan raiding and each person in the raid getting 37 extra scoops on a couple of alts. Like I said, that difference is very easily overcome once you have many alts in the same bracket.

And no, if you klan raid, you can’t really bunch your alts in the top bracket. It works for a couple of weeks while everybody has a low medal count, but you can’t easily keep medaling the same alts that you are using in klan raids. It just does not work out that you will get anything close to the vanilla on those alts that you would if you did separate solos on them. And as I mentioned earlier, trying to manage pistachio on several alts during a raid, especially when things are going fast, is counterproductive, so you just won’t win with those alts in brackets against people who are playing their characters solo. And that is fine, but what I am pointing out is that people who raid really can’t stuff the alts they use to raid into the top few brackets.

Again, what I have a problem with is unlimited ability to solo and very limited ability to klan raid. At least now, the soloers who bunch up their alts are countered in the top bracket by klan raiding, and klan raiding is limited by solo bunching and interference. If all you want to do is make raiding just not earn that many scoops, then the proposed changes to klan raiding will do that. But without also changing what solo players can do, I don’t see how that will change the medal situation or anybody’s ability to shut people out of the top bracket.

I think there should be a hat trick epeen if you simultaneously win most scoops, fave flava, and min scoops in a single round. And/or a bonus medal for pulling off such a feat.

Amasius Posted:

plk, you haven’t answered my question and since your biggest concern are alts in the same bracket I bumume that you agree that the number of alts in domination should be limited? Log in to see images!

Sorry, I thought I had clearly answered that in my various responses throughout the thread. If alts usable for klan raids are limited, then yes, I think that alts available to play “solo” should be limited too. I don’t really care whether neither is limited or both are limited, but you can’t just change one side of things and expect to change anything in the overall medal situation.

“Where I got it” is from the original post. All the changes under Domination Changes refer to raiding, not soloing. Under Longer Term Fixes, that is where alts and brackets are mentioned. There is no mention of whether the alt situation would change at the same time as the raid changes, or whether alts definitely would be limited. If you want to take it for granted that the solo game will definitely be limited as well, good for you.

I’m afraid, all of you guys miss the whole logic of Domination. It’s not about alts or whatever – it’s about Domination.

The medals are obtained not in the arithmetical progression, but rather in geometrical.

Open the Most Medals leaderboard and jump to the last page. There are 1400+ medal winners. The largest leaderboard (Buildr) shows 20K+. Virtually it’s less than 7% of players who get the medal. The higher the bracket – the larger get this gap.

Why?

1. Not everyone is able to participate in Buildr/INCIT – you have to be at least more creative than a washerman for that. Meaning: no choco scoops, no min scoops medal AND obviously no medals in top brackets at all.

2. Not everyone is able to play real-time card war in the last 30 minutes of round for time-zone/work schedule and other reasons. I.e. for me round ends at 3AM. Meaning: no medals at all in 3+ medals brackets.

3. Not everyone has got the best ping to server. Meaning: less scoops in solo run, no medals in the top brackets. P.S. Hey, guys, you talk about 37 scoops difference between solo and clan raid like it is absolutely obvious to get 72 vanilla every solo run!

So basically you guys like oligarchs – there’s only a small couple of you in the top brackets, fighting for the coveted 30-35+ medal. And all your “alts” problems are between top bracketers who already payed for 40+ alts and those are too greedy to pay.

Alts are paid for. Alts give people opportunity to:

– waste some more precious time on their obsession

– get pleasure playing other clbumes

– AND YES, enhance their Dom stats in order to shorten the gap between low and top brackets.

5 alts are easy to get – even a kid could pay $12. 100 alts are much more – only a true power-hungry munchkin would do that.

So 5 alts limit is the best choice – it gives people more chances to reach the top, if they want it.

After that, dear medal-hungry oldies, it would be YOUR job to give players interesting and fair competition in top brackets. Or else – no one would reach you for ages, and you’ll be damned to rip each other every week till the end of days.

****uck NOrris Posted:

I’m afraid, all of you guys miss the whole logic of Domination. It’s not about alts or whatever – it’s about Domination.

No one is missing the logic of Domination, we not only get it and found the very best possible way to dominate everyone, we’ve done it to the point where we clog not just the top brackets, but every medal bracket (and some unmedaled brackets) with alts.

I don’t know about the other Dom alt whores, but I can sweep a low level bracket whenever I want. I’m not saying it to be egotistical, it’s math and having the knowledge of how to do it against players who have never medaled on any character. Every week I see a stall post along the lines of “How the hell does someone get 150+ scoops on day one of the round?” Every experienced Dom player can pull more than that if they are set up correctly.

We are not just battling with each other in a gigantic vanilla wank-off. Every time we make a new alt that is to be used against each other it must be medaled up. No, they don’t need medals to raid, but a hell of a lot of raiding alts get medals so that they can be positioned in brackets to attack the competition. Getting the alts medaled up means locking out newbies or more casual players for yet another week.

****uck NOrris Posted:

5 alts are easy to get – even a kid could pay $12.

Just a note here, but to be bleeding edge competitive at dom, you’ll need to buy Episode 2 as well, so we’re looking at the $25 package.

****uck NOrris Posted:

So 5 alts limit is the best choice – it gives people more chances to reach the top, if they want it.

I suppose it all depends on what you think it fair. The alts I’ve got have cost me about about $50 (+10 for Ep. 2). Considering the amount of play time I get out of this game, I’d say it’s better than a lot of console games I’ve spent far more on. I don’t think what I’ve paid is at all unreasonable, or out of reach for anyone who has enough money for a computer and internet connection, and enough spare time to really think playing Dom is a decent way to spend their time, especially if $25 is fine, but apparently, it is. Log in to see images!

scullyangel Posted:

I honestly don’t know how a limit of one character would go over. Would the knowledge that a person could not play other characters in endgame prevent them from financially supporting the site?

I don’t know, but I don’t think a lot of people buy alts specifically for dom-related purposes. Us alt whores are in the very small minority, as you go on to say further down in your post. I think a lot of people buy their first couple alts for the same clbum-testing reasons you had.

scullyangel Posted:

I don’t think the majority of alt holders spend any time “gaming the system” in Dom, do you?

I think the few that are trying to compete with raiders, certainly are. I really doubt it’d get any better if alt-cramming becomes the new optimum strategy.

scullyangel Posted:

Very simply, looking back at earlier times some people had a few alts and we just didn’t see the same problems. I didn’t see alt clumping start to happen until I jumped from having 4 characters to having 9 and then 12.

Were people really dominating it up back then on all their alts? I can’t remember anyone using alts for dom at all, other than Arktor. Not like I’d pay much attention to it back then, anyway…

scullyangel Posted:

if Spacekadt’s idea of a certain number of locked brackets happened and it was impossible to get alts in bracket together I don’t think alts would be a problem any longer.

Well, you’d still have coordinated interference to contend with, but that’s really less of a problem than anything else relating to alts in dom.

BINGEBOT 2015 Posted:

So. As someone had mentioned earlier, it is unlikely that we’d be able to do both the Raid changes as well as the Alt changes at the same time.

As such I’d consider pushing one initiative ahead of the others.. and here are the options as I see them:

– Raid changes: Limit X characters per raid; each character can only join 1 raid per day; if you’re not in the raid, you can’t affect the count positively; can only join the raid in the first x minutes; (again, don’t worry about the 37 scoops.. as I mentioned, we build the infrastructure, then adjust the balance to make it work)

– Alt changes: Allow only X characters to participate in dom each week; it would likely auto-select the first 5 characters to earn scoops that week; outstanding characters can’t be marked as pwning forums; no alts in the same bracket

– Dom changes: # medals available in a bracket are relative to scoops produced in that bracket; no alts in the same bracket

Pick one and I’ll push it forward.. I’d been pushing the Raid changes cause they are easier to implement. But if there’s a larger problem around alts, let’s discuss and push that instead.

Thoughts?

My preference:

1) Alt changes

2) Raid changes

3) Dom changes

The alts are obviously a large part of the problem. There’s a slim chance in hell that solving the alt problem will solve some of the raid problems as well.

spacekadt Posted:

There’s a slim chance in hell that solving the alt problem will solve some of the raid problems as well.

This is my thinking too.. anyways, updated OP with all the proposed changes. I’m going to think about these in depth and figure out what to push forward at next weeks meeting so in the mean time, convince me which are the best changes! Log in to see images!

Keep in mind, I hope to push all of these.. it’s just a matter of figuring out which one’s to push first.

Agreed: Alts, Raids, Dom.