Acid Flux Posted:

You say that I’m ‘blinded’ to the situation because I’m trying to capitalize on it. I say that you’re ‘blinded’, because you cannot capitalize on the situation.

Am I not blinded because I’m not in position to capitalize on this situation, and I agree with you?

It’s also important to keep in mind that people not in position to capitalize on this now, could put themselves in position to capitalize later by buying up Master Balls now while the supply is relatively fluid and people are looking to make a quick buck, and then reselling them later at a higher price after they’ve become rarer.

Of course, they could always show up in Ppwn and become comparatively worthless again, but that’s just the risk you’d have to take. This is the reason that I hope ET doesn’t tell us whether or not the master ball will show up in the ppwn rotation. It takes the guessing out of the “should I buy now, to resell at a higher price later” game.

I’m just gonna do the recap

Acid Flux Posted:

So, to recap:

1. There was a 40 day prior notice that items in the Co-Op Store were not permanently going to be in that store.

2. There was never any mention that any other ‘warning’ would be given about when the items would be ‘discontinued’.

3. The Master & Dragon Balls were Special Items, and (along with the moar files) are not normally seen in a ‘Regular Store’.

4. I (and other players) decided to take a risk and invest in these items. Those of us that had larger reserves of Flezz were able to invest more into this speculation, which is common sense.

5. We waited, hoping that we chose wisely. We knew that one possibility was that ET would never get around to taking them out of the Co-Op (thereby making our investment virtually pointless), or that he would revalue the Dragon Balls to be less than the Master Balls (thereby significantly devaluing half of the items we had purchased on speculation). In other words, we chose to take a financial risk.

6. The items were removed from the Co-Op, and now their value has increased, as demonstrated by the Buyers willingness to pay for these items.

1. The 40 days thing, It’s like ET saying EP3 is in the making and all of a sudden 3 months later it’s out without another word said by it, people would be taken by surprised.

2. Just because it isn’t stated that there will be a warning when, we shouldn’t expect one? This game does have a tendency for “fixs” not to be well received but hell a flamebate post or updating the blog should have at least been given if something as big as items never ever appearing again, BEFORE they deleted them, not when they were talking about making item buildr.

3. Well they appeared in the ppwn shop, and there really is no reason ET can’t slip them into all the ep2 shops, so I don’t know how that counts as a point

4 and 5. you and the other like 2-3 people seem that bought them, seem to think that buying them was a risk. I see betting 2 million in flezz on blackjack being a risk. a Item you guys were selling for the AH epeen, a Item you’d have 4 days (4 not 40) if a better item was going to come out, a Item that was making you flezz and peen at any price you were selling it? come on, did anyone really think the price of masterballs were going to go down, even if they did has something ever dropped by more then 50k?

6. You have your auction to prove it, 6 million. If ET had any intention of making item value jump up that much and flip make a p. big impact economy, that with the exception of you and the few others wanted to happen. Let him come say it.

Really I’m done arguing on this, it’s never going to end.

All I want to know is, Will masterballs and dragonballs be in the ppwn shop or not Log in to see images!

Acid Flux Posted:

I prefer not to know. Let people continue to speculate. It’s more fun that way.

I mean, seriously people. We, as players, have had to generate virtually every piece of ‘help & FAQ manual’ in this game, via the Wiki, for everything from what abilities are available for which clbumes at which times, what the Attributes do, what the maximum benefit from any Attribute is, the stats for moar files, etc., etc. ET has traditionally been quiet in regards to the specifics on many aspects of gameplay. I’m still not 100% sure on how the Ppwn Shoppe resale/purchase price versus Base Cost system works. And I’ve seen some items that have very similar Base Costs, but Frugality seems to have a different percentage effect on them. Hell, the fact that Frugality’s maximum benefit changed, twice IIRC, wasn’t announced.

Why do you want everything spoonfed to you? Did you go through the Trapped in the Cupboard sidequest on your own, or did you use the Wiki? What about the BubbleTroll Adventure? Did you check the Wiki for the best responses on all of your STalk conversations? What’s happened to having a few surprises along the way?

Besides, like I said. it’s more fun this way.

Really, a virtual economy where items only become less valuable over time (like .moar files) or remain at a fixed price (like all of the items in NPC shops), is really, terribly stale and uninteresting. Things have to be able to change in price, both positively and negatively, in order to really call it an economy. When formerly rare and expensive things can become widely available and inexpensive and formerly commonplace items become rare and valuable, that’s what makes virtual economies interesting.

If nothing other than headsets and the falcon plaque are ever “luxury items that not everybody can get” there’s really no point to having kyoubai in the game. And those are items that exist in quantities of less than a dozen. It would be nice to have a few desirable luxury items that there are a few hundred of, so even new players could have a reasonable expectation of acquiring a few of them if things break their way.

Possibly a Cabbage Posted:

Really, a virtual economy where items only become less valuable over time (like .moar files) or remain at a fixed price (like all of the items in NPC shops), is really, terribly stale and uninteresting. Things have to be able to change in price, both positively and negatively, in order to really call it an economy. When formerly rare and expensive things can become widely available and inexpensive and formerly commonplace items become rare and valuable, that’s what makes virtual economies interesting.

If nothing other than headsets and the falcon plaque are ever “luxury items that not everybody can get” there’s really no point to having kyoubai in the game. And those are items that exist in quantities of less than a dozen. It would be nice to have a few desirable luxury items that there are a few hundred of, so even new players could have a reasonable expectation of acquiring a few of them if things break their way.

True, but there are two issues.

First, the question of scale – should an item that a minority of players have a large stock of multiply in value? Perhaps they should be rewarded for their prescience, at least in Acid Fluxes case – Inertia and the other guy just got lucky because they were boosting their auction seller value. If they are rewarded, we have to bear in mind it renders months of effort by many players (performing stale activities to work towards an almost impossible goal) null and void.

And second, is such a dynamic economy going to be by design (i.e. sustained) or by accident as in this case, with all the negative connotations stemming from the unplanned case. Acid Fluxes achievement here is unrepeatable, so he effectively gets handed an ‘you win’ card, and everyone else playing the same game gets a ‘**** you’ card. And to deal with these consequences, we end up artificially manipulating the top end of leaderboards, or else giving up on another game goal after months of effort, which is, you know, kind of a mbumive kick in the nuts. I just got spectacularly griefed by a badly designed game, and yes I share a big part in the blame for that, by playing the game in the first place. The lesson I therefore learn, is not to bother.

Sergeant Cid Posted:

I politely disagree.

The only tools with which I have to compete with your advantage are the same ones I had already. And you’ve got those as well. So your advantage is unbeatable. So why bother to compete?

meeeeeeeeee Posted:

... economy going to be by design (i.e. sustained) or by accident as in this case, with all the negative connotations stemming from the unplanned case.

advocating a planned economy? your Log in to see images!

Electric-Turtle-02 Posted:

advocating a planned economy? your Log in to see images!

Forumwarz is a mockery of a real economy. It doesn’t even begin to have the same checks and balances that would make such a thing viable.

meeeeeeeeee edited this message on 04/21/2009 1:31AM

meeeeeeeeee Posted:

So, continue to grind until ET ****s up again? I choose no, both for the reason that it might be a long wait, and even if it’s not, I don’t *want* to win by relying on a game designer to make a mistake.

Well, we can either encourage him to **** up more, or we can basically create a framework for this. I would suggest the following:

Currently ET thinks that there aren’t enough pieces of equipment in the clbum stores, so for now let itembuildr help fill out each store until ET determines that store has enough items.

When a store is “full” only add an item from the itembuildr co-op to that store if it replaces a current item of the same type in that store. Let ET and/or a group of trusted advisors make the call whether the new item should replace the old item, and only replace item A with item B if they’re of comparable power levels and prices. This is also a good place to cull the many, many violations of itembuildr’s “no copyrighted images” that we see run rampant, as those items should be dismissed immediately.

Otherwise, leave items in the co-op for, say, a month while the decision of “what should it replace, if anything” is made, and for items that don’t have an bumociated NPC store (e.g. special items), they just disappear into the aether after a month.

I think this would result in a reasonably active and interesting economy. It’s a start at least.

kittiejenn Posted:

Complete set of all 7 Dragon Balls is in the ppwn shop today. If it’s showing up, I bumume Master Balls will also.

Cue the bottom falling out of the market…Log in to see images!