BINGEBOT 2015 Posted:

2) Allow officers to create raids (without joining them)

This seems least important as it’s something klans can get around themselves by just having more officers.

BINGEBOT 2015 Posted:

Alright so here’s the priority list as I see it based on the discussion (as an effect of the changes we implemented):

1) Show how many forums a raid pwns (we would probably do this by allowing you to name your raid group, then displaying the name on the Klan Domination page)

Why don’t you make it so that if you are not in a klan raid, your visits don’t count to the number of forums a klan has visited. Make it so that you have to be in a raid for your visits to count. Having to name the raid sounds like it would be more unnecessary work to implement. Why else would you want to know how many forums a klan has pwned if they weren’t part of a raid?

BINGEBOT 2015 Posted:

Well, first starters I like the idea of naming your raid. Also it is a step in the direction at having multiple raids in the same klan (which I’m still considering). But I’ll bring up your point to ET and see what he thinks in terms of implementation time.

Well, if you’re going to have multiple raids at the same time, then yes I guess it doesn’t really matter. Personality I would rather see alts allowed in before multiple raids, but that’s just me.

cool, that works for me

Nicco Posted:

I think we discussed this before Binge, but if you’re going to allow alts again for raids, make it so that characters that joined a raid cannot earn any vanilla from solo raids.

Yeah.. to get rid of leeching. So.. if you join a raid, you can’t get solo vanilla for 3 days (or something like that).

Nicco Posted:

You should do the opposite too, if somebody did a solo raid he won’t be able to get vanilla from klan raids, otherwise people will do a solo raid on Wednesday evening after the previous domination round ended, then join a klan raid to leech vanilla.

Damn you for being right.

Porco Rosso Posted:

I think this is again making things excessively complicated in a way that doesn’t encourage anybody to raid. So if you run visits (for the job board, storyline, flezz, whatever), you need to be careful that you don’t accidentally hold 4 forums at once, else you’ll be locked out of raiding for the next 3 days? Requiring this much planning and preciseness about how visits are used just makes it a bigger pain than many people will want to deal with. Which is fine I guess, but doesn’t do much toward making raiding more accessible.

Yes, that.

Despite being in the Board, I don’t raid much, nor (at this point) do I put much effort into solo raids, but I still get vanilla periodically. I’d like to be able to help out on the occasional raid, but with all these new rules, caveats, and restrictions, it’s looking more like, unless I put all of my attention towards not disqualifying myself, I won’t be able to raid should I get the opportunity.

Seriously, I’ve been considering getting another alt just so I can turn off scoops (wat? A BoD member doesn’t have six characters already?), so I don’t have to think about this mess until my schedule lets me join a raid.

Though, now I only have a fifteen minute chance, to help out, as opposed to being able to join in at any point.

I guess it’s like finding out that the only baseball league is the totally serious pro-league with a mandatory schedule and expulsion for missing a game, when you’d just like to play for the occasional game with no commitments like you used to.

For some people, raiding isn’t a lifestyle! Help a casual player out here! Unless the point is to drive all the casual Dom-ers out of Dom.

As it always has been this really is a matter of the game designers deciding what they want klan raiding to be. Is klan raiding meant to be the premium method for scoop earning or is it simply an alternate means of gaining scoops like gambling, participating in Forumbuildr, pistachio looping?

If it is intended to be a bonus method of earning scoops it is very reasonable to expect there to be a cap on what can be earned. Many players don’t bother gambling for scoops because they feel that the number of scoops earned is not worth the time/flezz investment. The same can be said for looping pistachio or playing Forumbuildr or INCIT. Perhaps raiding should have a similar feel provoking the “I’m only going to get x scoops for this? Well then I’m not interested.” that every other scoop earning method brings out in some players.

Honestly, I dislike the current situation as it makes raiding a pointless activity for a good player. I know some solo players are gleeful about that, and god knows they deserve a little glee, but I think raiding should be a cool option that players can choose should they wish to. It should offer a decent benefit, but should not offer a benefit so overwhelming that every other scoop earning method is pointless.

Log in to see images!

What I would recommend.

– Keep the 13 per raid cap with only those joined having an impact on the forums held count. There simply needs to be a hard cap on the number of raid scoops that can be earned. If there isn’t it creates the situation where no other scoop earning method matters.

– Keep it so that disabled characters cannot impact the forums. People shouldn’t be able to get around the limits by flinging on visits from characters not joined to a raid. On the flip side, characters that aren’t participating in Dom shouldn’t be able to interrupt raiding either. The limit forces choices and sacrifice and strategy. Those are all awesome things from a gaming perspective.

– Get rid of the 15 minute join window. I’ve raided in pretty much every klan that has raided. The main reason people who are interested don’t raid is because of schedule conflicts. After work traffic or whatever should not mean the player can’t join. That whole idea is just silly and I don’t see the point in it.

– Allow alts to join without earning raid scoops. First alt to join earns klan vanilla scoops, any others do not. Yes, this means that people can feed a main, but when those characters sacrifice vanilla and most times pistachio, they are making a choice that those characters, one of their chosen 5, aren’t going to be medaling. If they don’t medal competitively they will not be in the upper brackets to help support klannies with crowd control – it is a fair trade off.

– Allow klan raiders to earn full value solo vanilla within a raid. This would help eliminate the idea that only those with alts can contribute effectively. It could mean that as few as 4 players without alts working together could benefit from a raid, while a full 13 would see a very decent return on their time investment. It would also bring some skill and decision making to the whole situation rather than having a “feed Denture chat” mentality that makes raiding monotonous.

– Change the join raid to 2 times per week with no time restriction on when a character can join. Have the counter set during the Domination downtime each Wednesday, so people can’t work the system and sneak an extra raid in.

What this would break down to scoop potential wise per week:

Log in to see images! Antifreeze – 80 scoops (max if one doesn’t gamble for scoops on the first Wednesday before the new round starts)

Log in to see images! Lemon – 120 (max if week is started with 12 visits saved and perfect speed times are achieved)

Log in to see images! Pistachio – 290 (max if week is started with 12 visits and week ends on the 80th forum – this is for the majority of players right now. A very few permanoobs, re-res and Emos could potentially have 2 additional scoops, but it’s not really worth worrying about.)

Log in to see images! Chocolate – basically unlimited, but realistically limited to less than 100 for all but the most serious Forumbuildr players.

Log in to see images! Solo vanilla – 224 (I’m not going to count what can happen if you do the at rollover thing, it just doesn’t happen often enough to be considered)

Log in to see images! Klan vanilla – 290 (13 raiders with 12 visits, less the 11 needed before earning a scoop – 145 per raid.)

Log in to see images!

Yes, the above implies perfect earning which seldom happens. So? That less than perfect cirgreat timesstance impacts everyone, not just raiders and not just solo players. The only 100% scoop guarantees at this point are antifreeze and pistachio. I don’t think the game would be very interesting if there wasn’t an element of “**** happens” within some of the scoop earning options.

A couple things to consider.

First – bumping allowable antifreeze to 15 or 20 per day. This would put those scoops at a max of 120 or 160 per week. BINGEBOT’s scaling antifreeze is a cool thought, but uncapping antifreeze is a bad idea. Flezz is a big enough problem as it is with the auction house opening the door to backhanded transfers. I don’t want to see Domination become a game of who got lucky with their .moar file drops or who got away with subtle flezz transfers.

Second – stopping pistachio growth at 100 forums. I bumume Forumbuildr isn’t going to just shut down when we hit 100 forums, but continuing to add pistachio beyond 100 will shift Dom to being a pistachio is all that matters thing and that is as bad as having vanilla positioned as the only thing that matters.

scullyangel Posted:

A whole huge honkin’ mess of correct

^

\

this

This this this.

Essentially, if players have to chose either klan vanilla or solo vanilla, then dom’s a solo game. Organizing a klan vanilla raid is sufficiently headache inducing that there should be a significant (though not crippling) benefit to doing it. Dom at the top brackets, in spite of what solo players want, is fundamentally a team game, that should ideally require planning, strategy, coordination and sacrifice.

Anyway, just wanted to have my say.

Amasius Posted:

I don’t mind the loss of Flezz and time but gambling is boring, boring, boring. It’s bad game design to force players to do something boring and repetitive to stay competitive. There should be other ways to get antifreeze scoops.

I agree, I loathe the daily gamble grind, but can’t help but feel that it is obviously the ****ty scoop category that needs a bump. Since antifreeze is supposed to be for self harm, perhaps a gamblebot option could be added to eliminate the ridiculous amount of time, yet force the flezz loss that inevitably occurs with gambling now.

Maybe an option added to the game choices: Mobsters backroom wheel of fortune. Costs 100k flezz to enter the room and you have a 1% chance of tripling your money, but a 99% chance of getting beaten up by mobsters who put you in cold storage resulting in 15 antifreeze scoops. One play per day.

I generally lose 60k – 90k a day gambling for antifreeze (sometimes more, sometimes I end up winning, but on average), so for a larger cost I could choose to eliminate the time spent. I don’t know, just a thought.