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Evil Trout Important Note: Abusing Kyoubai

MC Banhammer

Avatar: 1887 2011-07-31 00:40:59 -0400
36

[Good Omens]

Level 69 Troll

Trying to create drama to drum up the ratings by any means necessary!

The difference is, ET said, basically:

1) Pimping your auctions in this forum is allowed.

2) Pimping your auctions in exchange for BP is not allowed.

Acid Flux

Avatar: 6767 Tue Mar 17 11:41:54 -0400 2009
20

[Country Kitchen an-
d Flea Market
]

Level 35 Troll

KYOUBAI IS SUPER-SERIOUS BUSINESS

Johnny Mac Posted:

There is no difference since the intent is the same.

Yes, there is a difference, and the intent is NOT the same.

Setting up a single auction with a Buy It Now of 4.5 Million, and agreeing to give that specific individual 4 BP if they purchase the item, is abusive. The intent is to do a direct trade of BP for Flezz.

Choosing a random customer to award a BP to, especially if the customer that wins could end up having spent as little as  175 to win a BP, and if the random selection is monitored by a third party, is absolutely not the same thing. It is not a BP for Flezz transfer. It is an encouragement for people to peruse my sales. If they can find a lower price on the item they are looking to purchase, then they should buy it. I’m not asking them to pay any thing more than the BASE COST as listed by Kyoubai, and they have NO GUARANTEE that they will receive anything other than the item they paid for. None whatsoever.

Therefore, it is most definitely different.

The intent of a BP/Flezz swap is to get Flezz directly for BP.

The intent of this ‘Customer Appreciation’ is to increase traffic in my store, and no one person is guaranteed of getting any BP whatsoever.

If I offered 1 BP up as the prize, and then only one person that week bought an “Ex-Girlfriend’s COlogne”, then I just ended up ‘selling’ a BP for  175.

Tell me how that’s “abusive” and the ‘same as a BP/Flezz transfer’.

MC Banhammer Posted:

The difference is, ET said, basically:

1) Pimping your auctions in this forum is allowed.

2) Pimping your auctions in exchange for BP is not allowed.

The problem with the way this is worded. If I decided, for a completely unrelated reason, to give a BP to someone that had also happened to by one of my customers, is this going to be considered suspicious?

As I said, I’d like a direct explanation why my Raffle proposal is any different from the recent Raffle from the Ppwn Shoppe? No one was guaranteed to win anything out of that, and those that didn’t win the raffle had nothing of value to show for it.

Acid Flux edited this message on 01/19/2009 3:44PM

Johnny Mac

Avatar: 37704 2011-07-31 00:49:39 -0400
35

[Full of SbumSS]

Level 35 Troll

hot horse great times lover

Acid Flux Posted:

If I decided, for a completely unrelated reason, to give a BP to someone that had also happened to by one of my customers, is this going to be considered suspicious?

Sure it’s suspicious if they had no reason, this is where discretion of mods come in.

Why don’t you just not walk in the grey area. You’re just causing problems.

Acid Flux

Avatar: 6767 Tue Mar 17 11:41:54 -0400 2009
20

[Country Kitchen an-
d Flea Market
]

Level 35 Troll

KYOUBAI IS SUPER-SERIOUS BUSINESS

Johnny Mac Posted:

Sure it’s suspicious if they had no reason, this is where discretion of mods come in.

Why don’t you just not walk in the grey area. You’re just causing problems.

I’m asking for direct guidelines, so that I can walk on the ‘right’ side, yet still be creative.

And as far as reasons? Anyone that posted in the ‘Gimme Free BP’ thread qualifies.

Acid Flux edited this message on 01/19/2009 3:56PM

ShadyPixels

Avatar: Blood Cells
31

[70 Character Story-
tellers
]

Level 69 Emo Kid

“The Infinite Sadness”

So, this contest is abuse?

I mean, it’s not even close to what AcidFlux and the other contest-abusers are doing, I’m actually losing money on it, and someone is winning it.

I don’t see how that’s abuse…

Acid Flux

Avatar: 6767 Tue Mar 17 11:41:54 -0400 2009
20

[Country Kitchen an-
d Flea Market
]

Level 35 Troll

KYOUBAI IS SUPER-SERIOUS BUSINESS

ShadyPixels Posted:

So, this contest is abuse?

I mean, it’s not even close to what AcidFlux and the other contest-abusers are doing, I’m actually losing money on it, and someone is winning it.

I don’t see how that’s abuse…

Yeah, your contest didn’t involve BP at all, so Rule #2 above doesn’t apply.

And, as a polite request, don’t lump me in as a contest abuser. I didn’t break any rule that was in place when my contest was active, and I’m not breaking any rules now.

Johnny Mac

Avatar: 37704 2011-07-31 00:49:39 -0400
35

[Full of SbumSS]

Level 35 Troll

hot horse great times lover

Acid Flux Posted:

Yeah, your contest didn’t involve BP at all, so Rule #2 above doesn’t apply.

And, as a polite request, don’t lump me in as a contest abuser. I didn’t break any rule that was in place when my contest was active, and I’m not breaking any rules now.

You don’t need to be breaking a rule to be abusing something.

Acid Flux

Avatar: 6767 Tue Mar 17 11:41:54 -0400 2009
20

[Country Kitchen an-
d Flea Market
]

Level 35 Troll

KYOUBAI IS SUPER-SERIOUS BUSINESS

Johnny Mac Posted:

You don’t need to be breaking a rule to be abusing something.

You call it abuse, I call it being creative.

From a certain perspective, your numerous Flip-Flop auctions could be considered abuse. There’s no rule about ‘spamming’ the Auction house with low end sales, but if someone decided it was abusive…

Johnny Mac

Avatar: 37704 2011-07-31 00:49:39 -0400
35

[Full of SbumSS]

Level 35 Troll

hot horse great times lover

Acid Flux Posted:

You call it abuse, I call it being creative.

From a certain perspective, your numerous Flip-Flop auctions could be considered abuse. There’s no rule about ‘spamming’ the Auction house with low end sales, but if someone decided it was abusive…

I abused the HELL out of it with flip-flops, when did I ever deny that?

I’m done with it and it’s really not an issue compared to what else is happening is all.

Except if flip flops come back in the pwn shop. I have to do it then, it’s like a FW holiday. Can I ET? Log in to see images! Johnny Mac edited this message on 01/19/2009 5:18PM

Acid Flux

Avatar: 6767 Tue Mar 17 11:41:54 -0400 2009
20

[Country Kitchen an-
d Flea Market
]

Level 35 Troll

KYOUBAI IS SUPER-SERIOUS BUSINESS

Johnny Mac Posted:

I abused the HELL out of it with flip-flops, when did I ever deny that?

I’m done with it.

You got creative with the system, and when you were told it was considered an abusive act, you stopped.

Same here.

And you never answered my question as to how my Raffle Contest, as written, is abusive like the BP/Flezz Auctions were.

But not to worry. I’ve got a few more ideas that came to me on the drive home, but instead of cluttering up this thread any further, I’ll post them in my Store Thread.

MC Banhammer

Avatar: 1887 2011-07-31 00:40:59 -0400
36

[Good Omens]

Level 69 Troll

Trying to create drama to drum up the ratings by any means necessary!

ET and the CZ crew will be discussing Kyoubai policy at their meeting tonight. Stay tuned for updated info.

Wylin

Avatar: 19712 Thu Mar 26 21:15:20 -0400 2009
33

[Brainfreeze]

Level 69 Troll

Causing Jealousy On The Internet On A Daily Basis.

MC Banhammer Posted:

ET and the CZ crew will be discussing Kyoubai policy at their meeting tonight. Stay tuned for updated info.

How long?

MC Banhammer

Avatar: 1887 2011-07-31 00:40:59 -0400
36

[Good Omens]

Level 69 Troll

Trying to create drama to drum up the ratings by any means necessary!

Wylin Posted:

How long?

Probably until after their meeting. And after they get some sleep. And wake up. And have some coffee. And do whatever else it is ET does on Tuesdays. Which might be his day off.

If I lived near them, I could be more specific…

JBlade

Avatar: Hacker Man w/ Goggles
8

[Board of Directors]

Level 32 Hacker

“01001000 01000001 01011000”

Late thread is late.

sgreat timesmyfrog

Avatar: Red Green Flashing
4

Level 35 Troll

“Problem Child IV”

New rule per ET: Contests designed to increase your auction winnings are not permitted.

It’s not designed to increase my auction winnings (as in a single item sells for an astronomical amount). That’s abusive.

It’s designed to increase my overall auction traffic. (FYI, None of the items listed are priced above the ‘Base Cost’, as set by Kyoubai)

It is obvious that what you did was designed to increase your auction winnings. I don’t see the implication that a single item has to sell for an astronomical amount for this to be true, and I don’t see how you can say that and keep a straight face. Giving away a chance to win a BP is the same as giving away a BP, just to a lesser degree.

As I said, I’d like a direct explanation why my Raffle proposal is any different from the recent Raffle from the Ppwn Shoppe?

You have made the most ridiculous arguments against a very clearly worded rule. Where do you get this sense of entitlement?

Acid Flux

Avatar: 6767 Tue Mar 17 11:41:54 -0400 2009
20

[Country Kitchen an-
d Flea Market
]

Level 35 Troll

KYOUBAI IS SUPER-SERIOUS BUSINESS

sgreat timesmyfrog Posted:

It is obvious that what you did was designed to increase your auction winnings. I don’t see the implication that a single item has to sell for an astronomical amount for this to be true, and I don’t see how you can say that and keep a straight face. Giving away a chance to win a BP is the same as giving away a BP, just to a lesser degree.

sgreat timesmyfrog Posted:

You have made the most ridiculous arguments against a very clearly worded rule. Where do you get this sense of entitlement?

You have obviously not read the relevant posts.

I never said that my sale of a single item for a astronomical amount of flezz wasn’t intended to increase a single auctions winnings. That is a completely separate issue.

Using BP to increase a single auctions winning is different from offer BP as an incentive to peruse my Auctions first before making a buying decision.

If there is no guarantee that someone purchasing a Tumorous Kidney for 4.5 Million is going to win any BP, then why would they throw away that much money on such a slim chance? Therefore, there’s no incentive for me to list a TK for 4.5 Million, because no one would buy it. They’ll save themselves millions of Flezz by purchasing the less expensive ones that are listed.

Therefore, I would only be listing items at a more reasonable market value, at a price that is acceptable even if there is no added incentive. And judging from the number of items my Shop is already selling, with no added incentive, I’d say those prices I’m offering are quite reasonable.

So. If I have significant traffic even without a ‘BP Bribe’, and those prices in question are pretty much set in stone, then throwing in a BP as part of a raffle is simply adding something FREE and extra.

If I was price-gouging and using BP to intice people to make bad purchases, that’s one thing. But everything in my store is listed at or below Kyoubai’s suggested ‘Base Cost’, and they all have Buy It Nows, so that they can’t get catapulted to a crazy amount by someone trying to ‘hedge’ their bet.

Heck, I could even create a maximum number of ‘Tickets’ per week, so that no one person could get an unfair advantage.

The difference between the Raffle I designed (with very strict rules & regulations, including the offer to allow a MOD to make the random selection and thereby 100% prevent any possible collusion between me and any particular buyer) is VASTLY different from the ‘BP/Flezz’ 2.5 Million Flip-Flop Auction.

Oh, and since you’re not a member of Crotch Zombie, then I advise you to wait patiently (as I have) for their official response. In addition, my Storefront thread has other examples of how I intend to use BP to promote my store, but in very legal and fair ways.

sgreat timesmyfrog

Avatar: Red Green Flashing
4

Level 35 Troll

“Problem Child IV”

I read all of your posts. You’re just trying to use long-winded explanations to cloud the issue and weasel your way around a very simple rule.

offer BP as an incentive to peruse my Auctions first before making a buying decision.

Now let’s look at the rule again:

New rule per ET: Contests designed to increase your auction winnings are not permitted.

Let’s break it down piece by piece, shall we?

Is this a contest? Yes.

Is it designed to increase your auction winnings, even if only by a tiny amount? Yes.

Then it goes against the rule.

Acid Flux

Avatar: 6767 Tue Mar 17 11:41:54 -0400 2009
20

[Country Kitchen an-
d Flea Market
]

Level 35 Troll

KYOUBAI IS SUPER-SERIOUS BUSINESS

Nope, again you miss the mark. The question is, does ET mean ‘auction winnings in an individual auction’, or ‘total number of auctions won’ with that statement? Additionally, that statement was a summarization by McBanhammer, not an official ruling. I’m asking for an official ruling on the rules of Kyoubai & Contests, and McBanhammer is simply a Mod, not an Admin, and therefore doesn’t make the rules, he enforces them. Which is why I politely asked for ET & CZ, at their convenience, to make an official ruling.

You are not ET or CZ, so instead of interpreting the paraphrased post by McBanhammer and making your ‘official’ decree, why not, once again, simply wait for the official word.

And guess what! The use of BP to increase traffic to my Auctions has already been approved.

Now it’s just a matter of what methods may be used.

Acid Flux edited this message on 01/20/2009 8:56PM

sgreat timesmyfrog

Avatar: Red Green Flashing
4

Level 35 Troll

“Problem Child IV”

Acid Flux Posted:

And guess what! The use of BP to increase traffic to my Auctions has already been approved.

Now it’s just a matter of what methods may be used.

If you don’t like the approved methods, just whine some more and get it changed again.

Acid Flux

Avatar: 6767 Tue Mar 17 11:41:54 -0400 2009
20

[Country Kitchen an-
d Flea Market
]

Level 35 Troll

KYOUBAI IS SUPER-SERIOUS BUSINESS

sgreat timesmyfrog Posted:

If you don’t like the approved methods, just whine some more and get it changed again.

Requesting a clarification of the rules isn’t whining.

Here ya go.

I think we’ve discussed this particular issue as far as it needs to be discussed here, yes?

I think the best thing to do now is wait for that official answer from ET & CZ.

Acid Flux edited this message on 01/20/2009 9:07PM
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