but gambling requires a lot less time and effort.

especially effort.

Pickled male reproductive organbum Posted:

so in your guys minds raiding is for big clans only?

If solo players are able to compete with raiders, I don’t really care what size group raiding is for. If it’s really a big problem, you could just discourage large Klans by making larger Klans pwn more forums in raids.

Pluvius Posted:

If solo players are able to compete with raiders, I don’t really care what size group raiding is for. If it’s really a big problem, you could just discourage large Klans by making larger Klans pwn more forums in raids.

we’re just going to have to agree to disagree on this being how it should work. an end to alt raiding will probably result in a consolidation of serious raiders into one clan, and an increased problem with brackets consisting almost entirely of a single clan. or an end to raiding all together. which I guess is what solo players want to see.

because small clans being able to raid encourages more people to raid. (I dunno why no one else currently does, though) if only big clans can raid not only will more people feel like SG94 – that raiding isn’t inclusive enough – but the problem about clans dominating brackets will only get worse.

i can see how eliminating klan vanilla all together would encourage the most competitiveness, but CZ has always held that clan raiding is something they want to encourage. so the happy medium is to have clan raiding be something that a small group can accomplish. and alt raiding is what makes that possible. a small altwhore clan can compete with a big non-altwhore clan.

In the past, probably too well, since it disillusioned a lot of the brainfreeze players. (they of course were relying on natural turn over, which resulted in 10 hour raids, which is ridiculous.)

Pickled male reproductive organbum Posted:

because small clans being able to raid encourages more people to raid. (I dunno why no one else currently does, though)

One theory: A lack of time. Or the perceived lack of enough time.

Another: No agreeable time. Klans aren’t generally formed by real-world proximity to one another. Unless you have a sizeable enough pool, odds are you won’t be able to get enough klanmates together for a raid.

MC Banhammer Posted:

One theory: A lack of time. Or the perceived lack of enough time.

Another: No agreeable time. Klans aren’t generally formed by real-world proximity to one another. Unless you have a sizeable enough pool, odds are you won’t be able to get enough klanmates together for a raid.

yeah, likely. when 12/12/12 worked it really looked like others were going to get into it, because it was so much faster than natural turn over (which is i guess what creates the perception that it takes forever to raid)

the only really weird time zone difference is between europeans and americans, at least in my clan. sure east coasters have to log in later, or west coasters earlier, but its not so different that it keeps people from doing it.

only two of us, on average, have that many alts. if you don’t exagerate it helps your argument.

really you just need one alt whore, and maybe two or 3 people to run anchors. (or the equivalent of about 10-12 people with maybe 1 alt each)

Arktor Posted:

Third theory: Player would rather be doing something else. They have the time, they simply don’t want to use it to raid.

but they still expect to compete with those who do?

MC Banhammer Posted:

One theory: A lack of time. Or the perceived lack of enough time.

Another: No agreeable time. Klans aren’t generally formed by real-world proximity to one another. Unless you have a sizeable enough pool, odds are you won’t be able to get enough klanmates together for a raid.

Raids don’t really take that long (though alt shuffling can be time consuming) I’ve made time before, even though Ep2b doesn’t raid at a time that’s convenient for me (many are in the US, I’m in the UK) but until the actual mechanic of raiding is more interesting, or there’s some real raiding competition, I can’t see much of an incentive to continue. The changes in solo raiding have gone a long way to convince me – I can achieve only a % of what I can in a klan raid, but I can do so on multiple of my active alts, and the game mechanic is somewhat more challenging.

Pickled male reproductive organbum Posted:

yeah, likely. when 12/12/12 worked it really looked like others were going to get into it, because it was so much faster than natural turn over (which is i guess what creates the perception that it takes forever to raid)

The natural vs pushing method of turnover becomes a sticking point when you either have your alts in the klan or just plain don’t have a lot of alts.

That’s been the main difference between our two klans. Back in the days of hugely long raids, we only had one or two alts that were able to push the forums. Once we ran out of visits on those, it was down to waiting for natural turnover. We *preferred* to push when we could, but those visits go FAST when you’re pushing for a raid.

Not all of us are alt whores, you know Log in to see images! Anyway, the point is that pushing becomes a LOT harder when you have a klan of people who want the scoops but don’t have alts.