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Religion The benefits or harm of the concept of 'God(s)'

Shii

Avatar: 23167 2010-01-24 16:31:18 -0500
27

[Phantasmagoric Spl-
endor
]

Level 35 Emo Kid

I haven't seen a bad idea that I didn't like.

DarkDespair5 Posted:

Why not eliminate all evil of the world if he is omnipotent?

Evil.badness > Freewill.goodness IMO

Would you rather be tortured for eternity and have free will?

Or never exist?

Evil isn’t actually a physical thing. It’s similar to heat/cold, or light/darkness.

You can FEEL cold, but what you’re really feeling is the absence of heat. That’s why after a while, you reach a point where you can’t remove any more heat.

Same with light. When something looks dark, you’re only seeing the absence of light.

Someone might appear evil, or you might feel an evil presence, but all you’re really feeling/perceiving is the lack of God’s grace and love. Someone who has rejected the promise of life in Christ pushes God’s love away in the process.

I’ll describe how dying to remove sins works in my next post.

CroMagnon

Avatar: Red Green Flashing
1

Level 16 Troll

“Inflammatory Agent ”

Shii Posted:

Every single human is a sinner.

I’m every bit as bad as you and CroMagnon. Hitler and Mother Teresa are both equally guilty and equally deserving of hell.

Isaiah says famously, “Our best of deeds are dirty rags in his sight.”

This isn’t to get us feeling down about our insignificance, but it helps us to maintain a humble attitude, to remember why we do good things. Not to bring OURSELVES praise, but to glorify the father in heaven.

Eh. Tring to uproot someones belief is like tring to lift a mountain. A mountain made of false truths and lies. But hey, I went to a Catholic school, and they taught us stuff about religion, and I asked a couple of questions, got sent to the chouncelor, and i never belived what they told me again.

DarkDespair5

Avatar: 77864 Thu Jun 04 08:28:46 -0400 2009

Level 56 Hacker

“Logic Bomber”

Will a good atheist go to heaven?

CroMagnon

Avatar: Red Green Flashing
1

Level 16 Troll

“Inflammatory Agent ”

Yeah, we can always repent. Ive been babtised, so ive got my bets covered.

Shii

Avatar: 23167 2010-01-24 16:31:18 -0500
27

[Phantasmagoric Spl-
endor
]

Level 35 Emo Kid

I haven't seen a bad idea that I didn't like.

CroMagnon Posted:

Which failed. Badly too. “Jesus died for our sins.” explain that to me. Because i never realy understood it.

Ok, in the Old Testament Mosaic covenant, people still sinned. They were every bit as wicked and sinful as we are now. However, their sins stuck. They were condemned by existence.

To get around this temporarily, you had to offer cleansing sacrifices. Usually a lamb or young goat without defect was offered to the Lord as a burnt offering, an offering of purity to make up for the sin staining the person.

This is also the result of the ceremonial uncleanness laws made so famous by leviticus. Sacrifices temporarily purified the people so that they could stay within God’s presence without being killed. (God’s awesome power overwhelmed those who ventured into the Holy of Holies, the innermost room of the temple, because of their sinfulness. Only the high priest could enter once a year during the annual Rosh Hashanah holiday; anyone else would die.)

You’ve heard the expression “the Lamb of God” before. Isaiah also uses the term in chapter 53, some of the most famous messianic prophecies. “He will be led like a lamb to the slaughter.”

This is describing Jesus, the holy son of God, the lamb, who was sacrificed for all sins.

Since he was purely God and not just an animal, his sacrifice meant far more, had much farther-reaching power. In dying, he took away the blame and condemnation of all people, by using himself as the atoning sacrifice.

Shii

Avatar: 23167 2010-01-24 16:31:18 -0500
27

[Phantasmagoric Spl-
endor
]

Level 35 Emo Kid

I haven't seen a bad idea that I didn't like.

DarkDespair5 Posted:

So we are weak and worthless in the grand scheme of things? That gets me VERY down.

Yes. We are. Humility is a very important trait in the Scriptures. Paul writes that “If I am to boast, let me boast in my weaknesses, and boast in Christ!”

Shii

Avatar: 23167 2010-01-24 16:31:18 -0500
27

[Phantasmagoric Spl-
endor
]

Level 35 Emo Kid

I haven't seen a bad idea that I didn't like.

DarkDespair5 Posted:

Will a good atheist go to heaven?

No. And a ‘bad christian’ won’t either.

To get into heaven, you have to have two things: Baptism into Christ’s death, and faith that he has taken away your sin.

Paul also writes that ‘faith without deeds is meaningless.” There are many famous parables of fruit/fig trees that have bad fruit or no fruit, even though they look healthy. These trees are hypocrites, and will be thrown into the fire, according to the parables.

The moral is, you can love God all you want, but if you make absolutely no effort to try to live in a Christ-like manner, you might as well not be a Christian at all.

Shii edited this message on 01/26/2009 2:32AM

CroMagnon

Avatar: Red Green Flashing
1

Level 16 Troll

“Inflammatory Agent ”

Okay. Thats fine i guess.

And yay for google and ctnl+c

Evolution is a valid scientific theory supported by a considerable body of evidence, not the least of which is the observable phenomenon of species adapting to their environment.

Christianity says god did it, which is the equivalent of saying that an unknowable being, through unknowable means, created all species as they presently exist (or in the case of extinct species, have existed).

Saying I don’t know doesn’t qualify as an explanation. No explanation is not a better foundation than a supported explanation.

DarkDespair5

Avatar: 77864 Thu Jun 04 08:28:46 -0400 2009

Level 56 Hacker

“Logic Bomber”

Shii Posted:

No. And a ‘bad christian’ won’t either.

So you can live a virtuous life and burn in the fires of hell.

Wonderful.

DarkDespair5 edited this message on 01/26/2009 2:34AM

Shii

Avatar: 23167 2010-01-24 16:31:18 -0500
27

[Phantasmagoric Spl-
endor
]

Level 35 Emo Kid

I haven't seen a bad idea that I didn't like.

CroMagnon Posted:

Okay. Thats fine i guess.

And yay for google and ctnl+c

Evolution is a valid scientific theory supported by a considerable body of evidence, not the least of which is the observable phenomenon of species adapting to their environment.

Christianity says god did it, which is the equivalent of saying that an unknowable being, through unknowable means, created all species as they presently exist (or in the case of extinct species, have existed).

Saying I don’t know doesn’t qualify as an explanation. No explanation is not a better foundation than a supported explanation.

I completely agree that evolution exists. People that believe in the fixity of species are silly. That belief states that all species that exist now were created at the same time by God.

But everything we see in the world around us contradicts that. If we’re going to believe that, we might as well be Hindu, because their worldview contradicts science too.

I have no problem believing that God sparked the creation of life and set natural selection and evolution to guide it.

CroMagnon

Avatar: Red Green Flashing
1

Level 16 Troll

“Inflammatory Agent ”

Shii Posted:

No. And a ‘bad christian’ won’t either.

To get into heaven, you have to have two things: Baptism into Christ’s death, and faith that he has taken away your sin.

Paul also writes that ‘faith without deeds is meaningless.” There are many famous parables of fruit/fig trees that have bad fruit or no fruit, even though they look healthy. These trees are hypocrites, and will be thrown into the fire, according to the parables.

The moral is, you can love God all you want, but if you make absolutely no effort to try to live in a Christ-like manner, you might as well not be a Christian at all.

Look, if god judged on ethics rather than belief, then you wouldnt need to go to church on sundays. Or do anything religious for that matter.

Shii

Avatar: 23167 2010-01-24 16:31:18 -0500
27

[Phantasmagoric Spl-
endor
]

Level 35 Emo Kid

I haven't seen a bad idea that I didn't like.

DarkDespair5 Posted:

So you can live a virtuous life and burn in the fires of hell.

Wonderful.

It all depends on your definition of ‘virtuous.’ Since all humans apart from God are wicked and sinful until brought to Christ, it doesn’t matter what you do.

if you’re a Christ follower, and struggle to live a virtuous life, you’ll definitely go to heaven.

DarkDespair5

Avatar: 77864 Thu Jun 04 08:28:46 -0400 2009

Level 56 Hacker

“Logic Bomber”

Shii Posted:

I completely agree that evolution exists. People that believe in the fixity of species are silly. That belief states that all species that exist now were created at the same time by God.

But everything we see in the world around us contradicts that. If we’re going to believe that, we might as well be Hindu, because their worldview contradicts science too.

I have no problem believing that God sparked the creation of life and set natural selection and evolution to guide it.

Humans evolved from apes.

The Bible says humans were created directly by God.

So….?

CroMagnon

Avatar: Red Green Flashing
1

Level 16 Troll

“Inflammatory Agent ”

Shii Posted:

I have no problem believing that God sparked the creation of life and set natural selection and evolution to guide it.

He never did. All that you need to think of is, “Would the world work if god did not exist?” And if the awnser is yes, gods existance is meaningless.

DarkDespair5

Avatar: 77864 Thu Jun 04 08:28:46 -0400 2009

Level 56 Hacker

“Logic Bomber”

Shii Posted:

if you’re a Christ follower, and struggle to live a virtuous life, you’ll definitely go to heaven.

If you’re nice to people and charitable and amiable and humble, you don’t deserve to burn no matter what your religion is. I can be all that, and if I’m atheist, I’ll burn in hell?

Wow.

Shii

Avatar: 23167 2010-01-24 16:31:18 -0500
27

[Phantasmagoric Spl-
endor
]

Level 35 Emo Kid

I haven't seen a bad idea that I didn't like.

CroMagnon Posted:

Look, if god judged on ethics rather than belief, then you wouldnt need to go to church on sundays. Or do anything religious for that matter.

You don’t HAVE to go to church on sundays.

It just helps most people maintain a stronger, closer relationship with God, by giving some of their time to him.

I go to church because I want too, not because I feel obligated. If you’re doing good things because you feel like you HAVE too, your motives need to be re-arranged a bit.

Personally, I try to live after Christ because I’m so grateful for putting up with how sinful I am, and for everything He’s given me.

It’d be like your best friend giving you the best present you’ve ever received for your birthday, and then you ditch him on his birthday. You’d feel awful, right? That’s the feeling I get if I don’t try to live right with God (even though I fail a lot.)

Shii

Avatar: 23167 2010-01-24 16:31:18 -0500
27

[Phantasmagoric Spl-
endor
]

Level 35 Emo Kid

I haven't seen a bad idea that I didn't like.

DarkDespair5 Posted:

If you’re nice to people and charitable and amiable and humble, you don’t deserve to burn no matter what your religion is. I can be all that, and if I’m atheist, I’ll burn in hell?

Wow.

We don’t know all the answers for sure. We have to keep in mind that God is an all-merciful, fair judge. However, at the same time, the scriptures say that if you don’t give your heart to Christ, you’re not saved.

Christianity doesn’t give salvation out for good works. You can be an axe murderer on death row, and if you make a sincere confession of faith and repentance, you’ll be saved.

Shii

Avatar: 23167 2010-01-24 16:31:18 -0500
27

[Phantasmagoric Spl-
endor
]

Level 35 Emo Kid

I haven't seen a bad idea that I didn't like.

CroMagnon Posted:

He never did. All that you need to think of is, “Would the world work if god did not exist?” And if the awnser is yes, gods existance is meaningless.

But the world wouldn’t work if God didn’t exist.

How about I ask you guys some questions about science? Just to turn the tables a bit.

DarkDespair5

Avatar: 77864 Thu Jun 04 08:28:46 -0400 2009

Level 56 Hacker

“Logic Bomber”

Shii Posted:

We don’t know all the answers for sure. We have to keep in mind that God is an all-merciful, fair judge. However, at the same time, the scriptures say that if you don’t give your heart to Christ, you’re not saved.

Christianity doesn’t give salvation out for good works. You can be an axe murderer on death row, and if you make a sincere confession of faith and repentance, you’ll be saved.

Justice = punishment. Mercy = forgiveness. They are mutually exclusive.

Also, that’s not right. What about people who live in a setting that prevents them from learning anything about God? What about people who suffer mental psychosis?

DarkDespair5

Avatar: 77864 Thu Jun 04 08:28:46 -0400 2009

Level 56 Hacker

“Logic Bomber”

Shii Posted:

But the world wouldn’t work if God didn’t exist.

How about I ask you guys some questions about science? Just to turn the tables a bit.

You have asked us some, like the difficult entropy question I asked my own physics professor. You can ask us some, sure.

DarkDespair5 edited this message on 01/26/2009 2:45AM
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