Well as we ALL know the American Diplomacy gets off on squeezing money from the poor and offering sub-par treatments and PHENOMENALLY high prices. HMO, PPO, Blue Cross-Blue Shield… its all bull****. Under a Communist government paid system there would be no worries about funding from the people.

To me, those are just a bunch of 3-letter acronyms. But in case you were wondering, the health care here also excells at squeezing money, and offering barely any treatment at all. Being government-run and all. And it’s doing it’s best to hinder private health care systems, which are offering more while charging moreorless the same.

Thats Stalin you’re thinking of. He was the master of propaganda and unfortunately McCarthy made people like “you” believe that is all that Communism was/is about.

Ah, luckily I have only a vague idea who McCarthy was. I base my opinions on the fact that I live in country that struggled with communism for about 50 years. So, sorry about that, but I’ve seen it. I’ve read book that are elaborate metaphors, just to bypbum censorship. I’ve seen pictures and movies which were locked for years, as they didn’t support the party’s point of view. I know of people who were hunted down and murdered after WWII, as they were opposing the Soviet with the same determination they opposed the Nazis. I’ve seen posters teching people to contempt free traders, and glorifying physical workers (this can be answer to your doctor & garbageman argument, personally I rescpect people who work hard and with pbumion, no matter what their job is, I don’t know how you want from salaries to respect).

PIMPTASTIC-FROTH Posted:

@Hungry – Yes, communism’s flaws might be to difficult for any government to overcome…but as I’ve said before, many countries have borrowed from socialist and Marxist theory. Even the most conservative American is very, VERY liberal (American conservatism is more-or-less ‘clbumical’ liberalism), and just because a country like France isn’t communist, doesn’t mean they can’t institute universal health care, or other socialist concepts.

Not true really. If I remember correctly you’re thinking of “libertarianism” which is total freedom, both economically and socially. Liberalism has always been the school of thought that a body known as “government” needs to intervene to provide the best economic outcome. America is actually pretty conservative and it’s “liberals” are pretty much moderate conservatives, while it’s “libertarians” mostly just use the word because it’s cool, I’ve met liberal libertarians, and hardline conservative ones Log in to see images! (no, seriously, claims to be libertarian) but very few genuine ones. Libertarianism is only one step from “pure” anarchism in the clbumical sense.

America still falls in the whole “mixed” economy system which is a system everyone from libertarians who think a few services are required to maintain property rights to more archetypal socialists who beleive that everyone should have certain things available to them (some might add If they’re trying to work, but lets not go into subsets and HERETICS) but that capitalism drives better productivity.

A lot of America, and my native england, which 3rd party’s slightly stronger presence aside is very simular, suffers from the fact that the two main parties are moderate conservatives and hardline conservatives. There is no liberal party with weight, and hence no balance. When the government pushes something through, the parties infight and vote against themselves, reliant on the opposition to push it… Or that’s how it works here. That is to say, that most of our choice is an illusion.

Well, I’ll try to paraphrase myself: the impression of the next generation being less civilised that the current one is present at every point in history. Myself, I believe there is no regress, and the impression comes from getting more socially aware as people get mature, and finding the world to be “going too fast” when they become elderly. If every generation was actually significantly worse, we would annihilate ourselves centuries ago. I still don’t see how would that translate to, “war as a mean of population control”.

And about the guilt thing, I was being a bit ironic, sorry. Seriously, I know what “dying from guilt” means Log in to see images!

And sorry for that, yep, I arranged my post so that you wouldn’t be sure until the latter part if I’m from the US or not. I’m from Poland.

No problem, I was actually plannig to ask you the same anyway. Have fun at the party.

HunyrgLiekTehWofl Posted:

Well, I’ll try to paraphrase myself: the impression of the next generation being less civilised that the current one is present at every point in history. Myself, I believe there is no regress, and the impression comes from getting more socially aware as people get mature, and finding the world to be “going too fast” when they become elderly. If every generation was actually significantly worse, we would annihilate ourselves centuries ago. I still don’t see how would that translate to, “war as a mean of population control”.

And about the guilt thing, I was being a bit ironic, sorry. Seriously, I know what “dying from guilt” means Log in to see images!

And sorry for that, yep, I arranged my post so that you wouldn’t be sure until the latter part if I’m from the US or not. I’m from Poland.

No problem, I was actually plannig to ask you the same anyway. Have fun at the party.

I had read your previous posts and I was following your debate, and a lot of the points you raised actually made me think of the DDR (having studied 8 years of German/German studies, it’s always my default example because political studies on other countries were 2 intense years, at best).

In the DDR, communism really did make people kinda lazy. Outside of large cities (and in them to a lesser extent) were tons of people who had absolutely useless, menial jobs just so they’d be working. Then they have to integrate into a competitive economy and they lose their job, and there isn’t one to replace it. East German communism created problems that haven’t been resolved even today.

Anyway, I think you raised a lot of interesting points.

Kasgaurd Posted:

i would like to point out that germany had a multi party system during the wiemar republic.

look at how that worked out…

I would also like to point out that Germany was in huge debt and depression during that time. Kind of like the US now, actually, although the US isn’t quite in depression yet.

Kasgaurd Posted:

i would like to point out that germany had a multi party system during the wiemar republic.

look at how that worked out…

I believe this goes back to the earlier point of Ad Hoc logic. Also, I believe I can put a flag on that play, calling Godwin’s law on you.

There is no “perfectly” working system. For god’s sake, the empire most people think of when they think of “working” was Rome. It went through three (or more, correct me please) different phases in its history. It ended up destroying itself while being attacked from the outside. Nothing ALWAYS works. There are always problems. It is human nature to work towards disorder, albeit subconsciously.

HunyrgLiekTehWofl Posted:

To me, those are just a bunch of 3-letter acronyms. But in case you were wondering, the health care here also excells at squeezing money, and offering barely any treatment at all. Being government-run and all. And it’s doing it’s best to hinder private health care systems, which are offering more while charging moreorless the same.

Well those “acronyms” I posted are “in a nutshell” the dominant health care systems available here in the United States. Each one has their own benefits above “free” healthcare (which is atrocious) and against each other. However with the government charging private practices more and more money through taxes and “licenses” the normally affordable systems have now either

a) raised their rates TREMENDOUSLY in comparison to the last 10 years (or “pre-Bush)

b) opted to keep their rates lower than the competition at the price of service and reputable doctors.

c) screw over the people by (I’m dead serious on this one = HMO) “misdiagnosing” the patient forcing them to keep returning to the doctors office until whatever the real “problem” is becomes life threatening. This way the doctors can collect money off the insurance companies for maximum amount of visits at the risk of the patient.

Trust me if you have cancer? You’re not going to know about it through HMO until its already well into the operating stage. This way they can collect for the operating procedure. The government have forced these underhanded methods through their insane taxations and bullying of private practices and clinics.

Here in America our doctors do NOT prevent sickness anymore. They only have one rule. Prevent death. So unless you are ready to die? Don’t expect to get proper health care unless you fork out the ca$h.

I really don’t know how your government deals with medication prices in Poland, but I can bumure you here its a ****ing joke. The American system and policies are so bad and so overpriced when it comes to medications that people that REALLY need those prescriptions have actually had to resort to going over the border to Canada in order to purchase them for cheaper.

American Diplomacy has been a failure to the well-being of its citizens for years. Its only getting worse.

Althea Posted:

Another problem we have is that Americans love to jump in on the big ****ing finale. No one bothers to vote in locals anymore. Ask any citizen who was running for Treasurer or even Governor, locally, and they’d draw a blank. Unless it was on TV. Because TV tells you what’s right and would NEVER lie to you. Since no one cares who gets elected to political power via each state, it hugely effects who gets to be part of Congress. Can you name any Representatives…? A Senator? Without running to look it up really quick while my back is turned? So when we **** up the balance of power on a small scale, as in our own towns, it causes huge issues when it comes time to vote for the Presidency. Even in the primaries. Ahh, the primaries. Another story.

Democracy, in theory, works. In theory. When Americans don’t care about anyone but themselves (as individuals), it shows in our “Defective Two Party System”. If you want to find the source of the problem, I guarantee you your search should start locally.

Write some ****ing letters. Let people know you’re ****ed.

Don’t vote for Clinton just because she’s a woman.

Don’t vote for Obama just because he’s a minority.

Don’t vote for McCain just — just don’t vote for McCain.

If you seriously think America is a true democratic system, you need to read up on your history and politics again. Since the first day, America has been a “democratic republic” with a constitution. You’re right however, a true democracy cannot work in/of itself, otherwise it’s anarchy in the purest sense.

HunyrgLiekTehWofl Posted:

My advice: [everything]

I couldn’t agree more. Whether on paper or reality, there’s absolutely nothing good about Socialism, Communism, Marxism, or whatever other word you want to give it. They’re dystopias, every single one of them since they all promote a perfect world.

PIMPTASTIC-FROTH Posted:

@Hungry – Yes, communism’s flaws might be to difficult for any government to overcome…but as I’ve said before, many countries have borrowed from socialist and Marxist theory. Even the most conservative American is very, VERY liberal (American conservatism is more-or-less ‘clbumical’ liberalism), and just because a country like France isn’t communist, doesn’t mean they can’t institute universal health care, or other socialist concepts.

You’re only half-right. However, America was becoming more Socialist/Communist since earlier than almost other nation ever. It started in the late 1800s with the illegal ratification of the 16th amendment, you can thank the bankers for that.

Obviously it goes much further than that and the reality is a society based on Communism works under a prolific belief in their government and in their country as a whole, something America has not had since the death of Kennedy.

No, it has gone back since the original 13 colonies long before 1776. Americans have never accepted blind-trust in the government, at least not until they were forced to in the 1900s by a bunch of bankers, via the 16th amendment.

finale Posted:

Communism sucks.

Anarchism probably sucks.

Socialism sucks.

Democracy sucks, but often it seems to last a bit longer because there are more folks from all the different ideological dogmas doing whatever works in their respective areas.

As Winston Churchill said, “Democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried.”

Of course, he also said, “You can always count on Americans to do the right thing… after they have tried everything else.”