Possibly a Cabbage Posted:

I count 57.

Dogreat timesent: Incit Photos (+7 offense, also +7 to luck, defense, frugality, and charisma)

Music: Pink Floyd (+30 offense, also +30 defense)

Picture: Blood Spatter Art (+7 offense, also +7 defense as well as +170 Ego and Douchebaggery) -OR- Fermat’s Last Theorem (+7 offense, also +7 frugality and luck as well as +175 ego) -OR- Emo Perspective (+7 offense, also +7 frugality and charisma and +175 tears) -OR- Soggiest Cracker (+7 offense, also +7 luck and frugality as well as +160 ego) -OR- Where Da Gold At (+7 offense, also +7 defense, frugality, and charisma.)

Program: Useless program (+6 offense, and +6 defense as well as +130 ego)

Video: ****.milf (+7 offense, also +7 defense, luck, frugality, and charisma as well as +170 douchebaggery) -OR- Riprogrammatori (+7 offense, also +7 defense, luck, and charisma as well as +160 programming power.)

So that’s total boost to offense of: 7 + 30 + 7 + 6 + 7= 57

Whoops. I think I forgot dogreat timesents.

Better attack loop: ipz->avtr->X->404->avtr->X->avtr->repeat, where X cycles between Recipes, Ophelia, and flipr. This produces an average damage of 129.0 per attack.

Ok, I’ve done some more work and produced optimal EQ builds, total UP bonuses, total offense bonuses, and other such things for all clbumes.

——

Notes: Prior to this point, I had failed to notice the luck +2 that the ****ing on Firewalls™ Starter Pack provides. I will be adding 8UP to hacker totals to compensate.

I’m also now accounting for the free point of offense that everybody gets.

Optimal Book:

What Do You Call a Democrat at the Bottom of the Ocean?:

* Offense +8

* Defense +8

* Luck +8

16 combined (48UP +8) 8off

Hacker:

I Almost Had Sex With a Woman: Memoirs of a Hacker Hero

* Offense +10

* PP +50

(30up) 10off

UP per clbum:

Camwhore: 224UP

Emokid: 221UP

Hacker: 531UP(* Memoirs subbed for Democrat for PP bonus)

Troll: 380UP

——

Optimal .moar files:

INCIT photos to remove for being patently unfunny.sdoc:

* Luck +7

* Defense +7

* Offense +7

* Frugality +7

* Charisma +7

14 combined (42UP+14) 7off

pink floyd – darkside full album (ttly syncs w/ wzrd of oz at 2:43 awesome!!!).hear:

* Offense +30

* Defense +30

60 combined (180up) 30off

Where Da Gold At (Map).xpeg:

* Defense +7 +7

* Offense +7

* Frugality +7

* Charisma +7

14 combined (42UP +7) 7off

useless program that only wastes space.exec:

* Ego +130

* Defense +6

* Offense +6

12 combined (36UP) 6off

****.MILF.asian. mammary glands.great timesshot.latina. interracial.anal. girls.dvda:

* Luck +7

* Defense +7

* Offense +7

* Frugality +7

* Charisma +7

14 combined (42UP+14) 7off

Total: +377UP, +57off

Hacker:

Riprogrammatori.1995.iTALiANo.cam.DiVERTi.LZ.YViD-iMC.divy

Condition: 100% – Mint

* Luck +7

* Defense +7

* Offense +7

* Charisma +7

* Max Processing Power +160

14 combined (42up+7) 7off

Total .moar+book UP:

Camwhore: 601UP

Emokid: 598UP

Hacker: 901UP(* Replacing **** with Ripro for PP bonus)

Troll: 757UP

——

Clbum: Initial+Base+Earbleeder+Book+.moar=

Camwhore: 1+9+18+8+57=93

Emokid: 1+29+0+8+57=95

Hacker: 1+60+18+10+57=146

Troll: 1+10+18+8+57=94

Total*0.07633=Damage bonus

Damage bonus+1=Damage Multiplier

Damage Multiplier*100=Damage as percent of base damage

Camwhore: 93*0.07633=7.09869+1=8.09869= 809.869%

Emokid: 95*0.07633=7.25135+1=8.25135= 825.135%

Hacker: 146*0.07633=11.14418+1=12.14418= 1214.418%

Troll: 94*0.07633=7.17502+1=8.17502= 817.502%

Damage as percent of base damage

Camwhore: 809.869%

Emokid: 825.135%

Hacker: 1214.418%

Troll: 817.502%

—-

Highest damage output attack cycle:

Camwhore: Fetish pics(225)->Hand Bra(200)->Loop

Average Damage per cycle round: 212.5

Adjusted: 212.5*8.09869= 1721

Emokid: Everybody Hurts(230)->Quoth the Raven(175)->Loop

Average Damage per cycle round: 202.5(*)

Adjusted: 202.5*8.25135=1671(*)

(*Base, not adjusted for bonuses from health loss)

Hacker: ipz(205)->avtr(105)->Recipes(200)/Ophelia(100)/flipr(95)->404(120)->avtr(105)->Recipes(200)/Ophelia(100)/flipr(95)->avtr(105)->Loop

Average Damage per cycle round: 129.0

Adjusted: 129.0*12.14418=1567

Troll: Political Flamebait(350)->Shock Sites(220)->Loop

Average Damage per cycle round: 285

Adjusted: 285*8.17502=2330

——

I think it’s worth noting that I have a near-optimal set of offense .moar files (1 offense short), and with almost every UP I have put into offense (10UP on “Skin” tree, 148UP on offense(L51), 7UP on Defense (L4), 9 on Upkeep(L9), and 1 on Luck(L1)) I still only hit for ~2.7k.

I am contemplating creating a Google Doc to make all this easier, and to replace the now-outdated upgrade calculator.

Yeah, these are the important facts:

Troll:

Adjusted: 285*8.17502=2330

Camwhore:

Adjusted: 212.5*8.09869= 1721

Emokid:

Adjusted: 202.5*8.25135=1671(*)

Hacker:

Adjusted: 129.0*12.14418=1567

In the endgame, with optimized equipment, Hackers are significantly weaker than all of the other non-challenge clbumes, but the difference between Hackers and Camwhores (emos should be doing more than the above as the result of their ego falling) is only 154 damage though the difference between Camwhores and Trolls is roughly 600 points of damage per turn (Or, trolls deal approximately 50% more damage per turn than Hackers). That’s why Trolls are seriously overpowered for powerplayers, while Hackers are non-negligibly underpowered. The gap between Trolls and Camwhores is four times the gap between Camwhores and Hackers.

SimplyTHEBEST Posted:

That doesn’t actually make a lot of sense, since the end-game is distinct from normal gameplay. If clbumes aren’t balanced in the end-game then it quickly grows stale and boring.

Also, the difficulty when playing through the game is entirely dependent on how you choose to play. When I went through I bought the cheap equipment then the best equipment without much in the way of the mid-range equipment, and that resulted in the game being a bit tough at first followed by being fairly easy. (Of course, .moar files have come out since then and have thrown all the playbalance into chaos. Also, Camwhores got a few big nerfs along the way.)

This is true, but what I was getting at is that for some clbumes their equipment is much more expensive and breaks more easily, so the explicit and implicit cost is higher, which adds to the challenge.

To play the devil’s advocate, if all clbumes were perfectly balanced, there would be no point in having different clbumes since they’d all just be one and the same. But yes I know what you mean and I agree to some extent, though I think your proposed nerf on trolls is too punishing. And yes I’m also biased since I’m a troll myself. Log in to see images!

SimplyTHEBEST Posted:

Your pattern fails with the Camwhore, as the camwhore clbum is the weakest in the end-game. D:

If you take the time to gear your chars out, the difference should be significant.

On a related note, could you please provide your current build (EQ/Stats)? I can’t work this kinda stuff out without more information.

As many posters have pointed out, the main problem is that with the creation Kyoubai, glbumes have become available to pretty much every clbum except emos and re-res. I guess a very temporary solution would be to have a new shoe shop to provide better shoes.

As for my current build:

Ego 5140

Douchebaggery 616

Offense 104

Defense 128

Luck 46

Frugality 13

Charisma 33

Upkeep 20

Equip:

*Democrat book

*Tumorous Kidney

*Earbleeders

*Prune Serv

*male reproductive organblaster mouse

Moar files

*More random keystrokes (+7 Offense, +7 Luck)

*Pink Floyd (+30 Offense, +30 Defense)

*My blood in the bathtub (+150 Ego, +6 Offense, +6 Luck, +6 Frugality)

*Deluxe Paperclip bumistant (+40 Ego, +2 Offense, +2 Defense, +2 Frugality)

*Riprogrammatori (+7 Offense, +7 Defense, +7 Luck, +7 Charisma)

I will most likely change this build as I made this when I was level 33 and wanted to pwn the level 35 forums. You can expect probably another 12-14 points into offense and ego down to around 2000 with my future build.

Possibly a Cabbage Posted:

Hackers need to have around 4000 ego to pwn any forum at max threads without consumables, trolls only need about 2000 to pwn any forum at max threads without consumables. That’s about 13 levels of egomania for trolls, versus about 21 levels of egomania for hackers, which amounts to 8 more points of offense for trolls. I don’t honestly know about how much high end camwhores spend on egomania, emos I imagine spend very very little.

This is definitely not true, even with 128 defense, the level 35 forums still hit for 350+ each hit, and you are *very* unlikely (if not impossible) to pwn them at max threads without any consumables. Even with 5140 ego, there this one time where I got extremely unlucky and died on the very last thread when trying to pwn Fetish at 12 threads, and that’s with me using a boatload of 5-HTP’s when I had around 1000 ego left, I just got really unlucky since the forum kept hitting me without missing.

Hmmm ok I see what you’re getting at.

I was thinking more along the lines of fixing upkeep at 20 and luck at a certain number, rather than toss everything into offense and/or defense. But IMO defense is sort of useless, a level 35 forum doing 10% less damage doesn’t make a difference if your offense is high enough that you can kill everything in 2 rounds.

futhermocker Posted:

This is true, but what I was getting at is that for some clbumes their equipment is much more expensive and breaks more easily, so the explicit and implicit cost is higher, which adds to the challenge.

Putting points in Upkeep negates that. With 10 Upkeep I pay less than 14,000 in repairs for every four visits I make to L35 forums. Considering how long it takes to save up for powerful Eq, the repairs cost should be a non-issue once you actually have the item.

futhermocker Posted:

To play the devil’s advocate, if all clbumes were perfectly balanced, there would be no point in having different clbumes since they’d all just be one and the same.

“Balanced” does not mean “Identical”, it means that the strengths and weaknesses of each clbum make them equally competent on average but not necessarily in any given aspect.

futhermocker Posted:

But yes I know what you mean and I agree to some extent, though I think your proposed nerf on trolls is too punishing. And yes I’m also biased since I’m a troll myself.

I understand both your viewpoint and why you feel that way, but I don’t agree with you.

Trolls have the highest defense (Albeit closely followed by Hacker), and so need to have lower damage than other clbumes to compensate. One clbum having the highest damage and highest defense is the opposite of balanced.

futhermocker Posted:

As many posters have pointed out, the main problem is that with the creation Kyoubai, glbumes have become available to pretty much every clbum except emos and re-res.

No. Glbumes have always been available at the Ppwn Shoppe, although only sporadically.

futhermocker Posted:

I guess a very temporary solution would be to have a new shoe shop to provide better shoes.

That’s part of my suggestion for un-nerfing Camwhores, but that doesn’t solve the problem of overpowered trolls.

futhermocker Posted:

As for my current build:

Thank you! Please, share your new build once it’s ready.

——

futhermocker Posted:

This is definitely not true, even with 128 defense, the level 35 forums still hit for 350+ each hit, and you are *very* unlikely (if not impossible) to pwn them at max threads without any consumables. Even with 5140 ego, there this one time where I got extremely unlucky and died on the very last thread when trying to pwn Fetish at 12 threads, and that’s with me using a boatload of 5-HTP’s when I had around 1000 ego left, I just got really unlucky since the forum kept hitting me without missing.

When I spec for taking-on level 35 forums, I put 43 Upgrade Points into Egomania (L16), the rest in Offense, and burn consumables to make-up the difference.

Also, prior to obtaining Pink Floyd I was taking 400+ damage per hit. Pink Floyd brought that down to +360.

Unless I made a math error, without points in Offense it would take me 4 attacks to pwn each thread, resulting in a maximum possible loss of +12,960 ego, requiring that I put 121UP (L42) into it if I want to insure that I require no 5-HTPs.

If you’d like, I can try it out once I finish my streak. Should be good for a laugh. Log in to see images!

Also from the other thread:

Possibly a Cabbage Posted:

This is an important point. All things being equal, nerfs are fairly discouraging, while buffing something, even something you never use or can’t use, never really ****es anybody off.

“Man, you made trolls suck now” is something that’s going to annoy people.

“Camwhores, Emos, and Hackers are a lot better now, but trolls are still really good” isn’t going to annoy anybody.

Especially since if you run into the problem where “everybody is overpowered” that’s definitely solvable by “making harder forums.” Make a forum with the damage output of Cosplay, the pwnage of Engrish, and the number of threads of Praypal and suddenly nobody is overpowered anymore.

I think this is something that should be seriously considered. Instead of nerfing trolls why not bring all other clbumes in line? The first thing to do would be to give camwhores and hackers better starter packs, as the current ones are marginally better than useless.

MeatLoafFan Posted:

Reposting this because it’s a valid point that everyone ignored…

I agree, regardless of power the hacker refresh rate is abysmal. I sometimes get down to like bg on my hacker with no ability to use. Log in to see images!