That statement is total BS. Extra offense does much more for high damage attacks then for low damage.
The only time extra offence matters for low damage attacks is if that extra point or 2 will help you 1 or 2 shot a thread when you normally wouldn’t. My troll takes 5-6 attacks to Pwn a Memebuster thread. My Camwhore takes about 4. Or 2 if you count Threaten to Contact Authorities and Ophelia’s Bad Poetry.

offense sux for re-res

no % increase on basic attacks at 2 offense

Leechbait edited this message on 04/22/2008 7:36PM

Arktor Posted:

Paraone Posted:

To be fair, it works better for some clbumes than others. You have to think of the difference in attacks that the clbumes have.

To be fair, that’s absurd. It has the exact same %increase for every clbum.

Technically offense does work better for some clbumes than others, because of a couple of factors. One is that damage is done as discrete rounded values rather than an exact average that increases flatly with offense. This has a more significant effect with certain offense values, of course. 14 offense is equal in this regard for all attacks. For odder values, Ophelia’s will always get a nice solid boost, while lower-damage attacks could miss up to a point of average damage from rounding. This is more significant the lower the attack’s damage. The first two Re-Re attacks see a 0% increase in damage at 2 offense.

The other reason offense works better for some clbumes than others is because of the free hits from pwning threads. If it takes you 5 hits on average to pwn a thread, you get attacked 4 times. Drop that to 4 hits to pwn and you’re only being attacked 3 times – you’re taking 75% of the damage.

Now, if it takes you 10 hits to pwn a thread, you’re being attacked 9 times. An equivalent offense boost should drop you to 8 hits for pwnage, and 7 times being attacked. Now you’re taking 77% of the damage.

Arktor Posted:

Well, since trolls take longer to kill forums, having higher offense results in it taking much less time to pwn forums than you’d get from the same amount of offense on a non-troll.

Your argument fails to prove anything. No matter how close in seconds the troll gets to the emo/camwhore, the % advantage they have stays the same, so any speedrun scoop times balanced for faster clbumes allow sub-optimal builds on those clbumes to scoop at the same frequency as optimal builds for trolls. Additionally, to advance on the leaderboards an inherently slow clbum would always be at a disadvantage until such point as the % advantage of the faster clbumes led to less than 1 second difference in times.

evilhamster Posted:

You need more than 2 offense to make a difference.

For an attack that does 3-6 damage, with +8%, you get 3.24 – 6.48 damage. If rounded to the nearest whole number or truncated, there’s literally no difference.

Arktor Posted:

For an attack that does 3-6 damage, with +8%, you get 3.24 – 6.48 damage. If rounded to the nearest whole number or truncated, there’s literally no difference.

That’s what I said, without the math… Log in to see images!

evilhamster Posted:

That’s what I said, without the math… Log in to see images!

Yeah, I was agreeing.

Leechbait Posted:

my point is that offense isnt equal for all clbumes

i’m being shafted

This is true. Rounding error is especially unfair for re-res.

Sancdar Posted:

You’ve been saying that slower characters get an extra boost from offense because it gives them more of an improvement in seconds, which is true but irrelevant. I was just pointing that out.

As far as I can tell, you’re not trying to argue any points at all, you just want an excuse to troll Game Discussion without getting banned. I guess I’ll try to ignore your posts in here until you come up with something you’re actually proving.

Well, maybe you should stop being so close-minded, and instead consider my argument all along: except for speedruns, trolls are fine. The fix should be to the way speedruns work, not to the way trolls work.

Arktor edited this message on 04/22/2008 7:54PM

Arktor Posted:

Well, maybe you should stop being so close-minded, and instead consider my argument all along: except for speedruns, trolls are fine. The fix should be to the way speedruns work, not to the way trolls work.

They make less   at rollover and spend more on consumables. Repair costs are irrelevant until the various tricks are fixed/changed, but I don’t know that they have an advantage there either.

So they’re slower to pwn and get less of a reward when they finally do so. Also, since their high defense makes combat more erratic, they’re harder to predict proper consumable levels for, so less-experienced players are more likely to die. Where’s the benefit that makes them worth it?

Also if you could look at the suggestion I posted, I really do want somebody’s opinions on it.

Sancdar Posted:

I actually forgot my original reason for coming to the thread, a suggestion for buffing trolls without giving them stronger attacks.

I propose that every point of defense additionally gives a 1% bonus to all healing effects. Maybe just consumables, so camwhores don’t get an extra 3-4 ego off of Pump Me Up. I think this would open up more troll builds and allow them to compensate for their low charisma/luck scores with more consumable bang for the buck.

Your guys’ thoughts on this?

Is that in addition to the less damage?

It could be helpful. Emos don’t want high defense so won’t get much of a boost- keeping ego low. Camwhores don’t need the extra healing most of the time- and mostly focus on offense anyways. That leaves trolls – fewer moves spent on healing = less damage taken and less time spent pwning forums.