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Shock Buff trolls!

Arktor

Avatar: Schoolgirl Uniform
24

[Smooth Town Rebels]

Level 10 Camwhore

Medal Ninja

Sancdar Posted:

They make less   at rollover and spend more on consumables. Repair costs are irrelevant until the various tricks are fixed/changed, but I don’t know that they have an advantage there either.

So they’re slower to pwn and get less of a reward when they finally do so. Also, since their high defense makes combat more erratic, they’re harder to predict proper consumable levels for, so less-experienced players are more likely to die. Where’s the benefit that makes them worth it?

Also if you could look at the suggestion I posted, I really do want somebody’s opinions on it.

In my experience, the much higher repair costs for a camwhore result in earning approximately the same net flezz as a troll. I suppose you could say that repair costs are irrelevant, although I think that insisting that trolls are underpowered due to a bug has no bearing on the fundamental balance between the clbumes.

I like your idea of making defense increase healing. Maybe make it 2% or 2.5%, though.

Marcos El Ma-
lo

Avatar: Marcos El Malo's Avatar

Level 10 Troll

“Pain in the ASCII”

Sancdar Posted:

I actually forgot my original reason for coming to the thread, a suggestion for buffing trolls without giving them stronger attacks.

I propose that every point of defense additionally gives a 1% bonus to all healing effects. Maybe just consumables, so camwhores don’t get an extra 3-4 ego off of Pump Me Up. I think this would open up more troll builds and allow them to compensate for their low charisma/luck scores with more consumable bang for the buck.

Your guys’ thoughts on this?

Wouldn’t it just be easier to make the trolls’ attacks a teensy bit more powerful until they’re closer, if not on par, to camwhore and emo? I think it would be easier to tweak it for game balance.

I see what you’re trying to do, which is definitely more interesting, but I’d prefer to see EP 2 and a troll buff in a reasonable time frame. Your proposal would require play testing and QA for all three and a half clbumes (sorry, re res) as well as (probably) more actual coding. In an more perfect world, I’d pick your solution, but I want it NOW!! Log in to see images!

evilhamster

Avatar: evilhamster's Avatar
10

[The Fondler of Bal-
lsacks
]

Level 34 Emo Kid

“Cutty Cutterson”

seanpg71 Posted:

I still think a forum that hit for 60 damage and took 200 pwnage/ thread would be interesting. That would unravel camwhore and emo kid strategies enough to probably make it almost unplayable for them, but a troll with decent defense might not find it much harder than pp.

Edit: Maybe 240 pwnage – put it just out of the reach of ophilias and 2xthreaten for good measure.

That would be just unplayable—

Take a smileprin XR, take 60 damage, take a smileprin XR, take 60 damage.

Even counting on misses from high defense trolls would still be relying too much on luck to survive it.

Sancdar

Avatar: Sancdar's Avatar
35

[Team Shortbus]

Level 50 Camwhore

LCC club

seanpg71 Posted:

The reason that offense helps different clbumes more than others isn’t just rounding. It’s that it’s percentage based.

The 1 point of additional offense gives a camwhore ~5 extra damage per hit for her strongest attack. An extra point of offense gives a troll ~3 extra damage. It’s something like .3 for the base re-re attacks and that’s why the rounding becomes a big factor.

So, offense is more useful to camwhores than to trolls.

Offense only helps when it decreases the number of attacks or amount of your secondary stat that you use to kill a thread. Each point is less likely to do this for a camwhore, because they’re already pretty much going Threat/Vivid/Threat and moving on. If I picked up another point, it would lessen the number of times that I’m only a few pwnage short, so it could save me damage. But since those instances drop my cooldown on Threat by 1, they don’t actually hurt me very much. Also, since Ophelia/Threat is already enough to drop a thread, a point of offense on those ones gives me absolutely nothing.

I think Trolls are potentially more likely to be saved time/attacks by the same % increase in damage. Once again, discrete intervals make the mathcrafting much more complicated than it seems. Leechbait already brought this up in regards to rounding errors; I’d previously accepted that rounding was harmful to low-damage attacks, but it can swing both ways.

seanpg71 Posted:

I still think a forum that hit for 60 damage and took 200 pwnage/ thread would be interesting. That would unravel camwhore and emo kid strategies enough to probably make it almost unplayable for them, but a troll with decent defense might not find it much harder than pp.

Because trolls are so variable, they’d still have a **** with this type of forum. Camwhores wouldn’t have much trouble at all – Ophelia 1-shots whenever it’s up, so you take 0 damage, and Pump/Threat/Vivid kills whenever it’s not up. In 4 threads you’d take 8 attacks and heal 1.5-2 attacks of damage.

Trolls would still take hits on their Ophelia threads, and I think that alone would decide things.

I have absolutely no idea how an Emo would deal with this, I don’t know how they play yet.

evilhamster Posted:

That would be just unplayable—

Take a smileprin XR, take 60 damage, take a smileprin XR, take 60 damage.

Even counting on misses from high defense trolls would still be relying too much on luck to survive it.

With Troll defense you’d only be taking 48 damage, so at least you’d get 1 attack in per XR. You’d still be boned.

Sancdar edited this message on 04/22/2008 8:22PM

seanpg71

Avatar: Blood Cells
5

[Brainfreeze]

Level 10 Emo Kid

“Gloomy Gus”

Sancdar Posted:

They make less   at rollover and spend more on consumables. Repair costs are irrelevant until the various tricks are fixed/changed, but I don’t know that they have an advantage there either.

So they’re slower to pwn and get less of a reward when they finally do so. Also, since their high defense makes combat more erratic, they’re harder to predict proper consumable levels for, so less-experienced players are more likely to die. Where’s the benefit that makes them worth it?

Also if you could look at the suggestion I posted, I really do want somebody’s opinions on it.

Repair costs are not irrelevant, but I believe that they are cpmparable between camwhores and trolls. Troll stuff breaks twice as fast as the good camwhore stuff, and they’re going to be sitting in threads longer getting hit more so you’ll have to repair it more often. However, it is cheaper and thus costs less to repair it when you do. Emo kids are way better in the repair costs department.

Arktor

Avatar: Schoolgirl Uniform
24

[Smooth Town Rebels]

Level 10 Camwhore

Medal Ninja

evilhamster Posted:

That would be just unplayable—

Take a smileprin XR, take 60 damage, take a smileprin XR, take 60 damage.

Even counting on misses from high defense trolls would still be relying too much on luck to survive it.

At least it would make Life after Death useful.

seanpg71

Avatar: Blood Cells
5

[Brainfreeze]

Level 10 Emo Kid

“Gloomy Gus”

evilhamster Posted:

That would be just unplayable—

Take a smileprin XR, take 60 damage, take a smileprin XR, take 60 damage.

Even counting on misses from high defense trolls would still be relying too much on luck to survive it.

Yes – it would suck bum for camwhores and emo kids.

I meant base defense – as in what you’d get hit for with a defense of 0. With 10 defense you’d get hit for 54, with 20 you’d get hit for 48. Factor in miss rates of something like 45% for 20 defense and I think it might be just possible for a troll.

Sancdar

Avatar: Sancdar's Avatar
35

[Team Shortbus]

Level 50 Camwhore

LCC club

evilhamster Posted:

Is that in addition to the less damage?

It could be helpful. Emos don’t want high defense so won’t get much of a boost- keeping ego low. Camwhores don’t need the extra healing most of the time- and mostly focus on offense anyways. That leaves trolls – fewer moves spent on healing = less damage taken and less time spent pwning forums.

Yes, in addition to the other effects of defense.

Arktor Posted:

I like your idea of making defense increase healing. Maybe make it 2% or 2.5%, though.

Yeah, I hadn’t thought about how much defense the clbumes generally had at first. I like 2% much better.

Marcos El Malo Posted:

Wouldn’t it just be easier to make the trolls’ attacks a teensy bit more powerful until they’re closer, if not on par, to camwhore and emo? I think it would be easier to tweak it for game balance.

I see what you’re trying to do, which is definitely more interesting, but I’d prefer to see EP 2 and a troll buff in a reasonable time frame. Your proposal would require play testing and QA for all three and a half clbumes (sorry, re res) as well as (probably) more actual coding. In an more perfect world, I’d pick your solution, but I want it NOW!! Log in to see images!

I think that would destroy the “theme” that I see behind the clbum. Camwhores make money and easily derail threads with Escher-quality pics. Emo kids thrive on pain. Trolls are relentless low-level annoyances. Making it so Trolls play like a flat-broke Camwhore is lame.

Arktor Posted:

In my experience, the much higher repair costs for a camwhore result in earning approximately the same net flezz as a troll. I suppose you could say that repair costs are irrelevant, although I think that insisting that trolls are underpowered due to a bug has no bearing on the fundamental balance between the clbumes.

While two of the ways to negate repair costs are clearly exploits and hopefully will be fixed soon, the remaining way looks like a valid and noob-necessary game mechanic. The other technique to merely lessen costs I think favors everyone pretty equally. I’m sure another spader could check  /hit costs for standard equipment builds, but we’d also need to know how many hits various builds take on average.

seanpg71 Posted:

Yes – it would suck bum for camwhores and emo kids.

I meant base defense – as in what you’d get hit for with a defense of 0. With 10 defense you’d get hit for 54, with 20 you’d get hit for 48. Factor in miss rates of something like 45% for 20 defense and I think it might be just possible for a troll.

I think my camwhore approach is valid and would enjoy the forum much harder than any troll could.

Sancdar edited this message on 04/22/2008 8:29PM

evilhamster

Avatar: evilhamster's Avatar
10

[The Fondler of Bal-
lsacks
]

Level 34 Emo Kid

“Cutty Cutterson”

seanpg71 Posted:

Repair costs are not irrelevant, but I believe that they are cpmparable between camwhores and trolls. Troll stuff breaks twice as fast as the good camwhore stuff, and they’re going to be sitting in threads longer getting hit more so you’ll have to repair it more often. However, it is cheaper and thus costs less to repair it when you do. Emo kids are way better in the repair costs department.

That’s because we have crappy equipment— in comparison to what the other clbumes have.

Sancdar

Avatar: Sancdar's Avatar
35

[Team Shortbus]

Level 50 Camwhore

LCC club

evilhamster Posted:

That’s because we have crappy equipment— in comparison to what the other clbumes have.

I’m rooting for pluvius, Paraone, or maybe BGIB here. They might be able to grind up enough   for a DML and show everyone else what a speedrunning troll can really do.

seanpg71

Avatar: Blood Cells
5

[Brainfreeze]

Level 10 Emo Kid

“Gloomy Gus”

Sancdar Posted:

I think my camwhore approach is valid and would enjoy the forum much harder than any troll could.

I was thinking that taking that much damage would make it hard to run pump me up all the time unless your ego was pretty high. That would make it much harder to 1 or 2 shot forums, especially if you bumped it up to 230ish instead of 200.

PP is much worse as a troll than as a camwhore. If I had to guess, I’d say my theoretical forum would be equally bad for a troll and camwhore (which ends up being better for the camwhore cause of deliveries).

Mostly I just think it would be fun to have a forum that you couldn’t actually spend all your visits in every day.

Edit:

In 4 threads you’d take 8 attacks and heal 1.5-2 attacks of damage.

So that means you’re hit for something like 300 ego. That takes 3 turns to restore, resulting in 3 more hits. That’s not real sustainable.

seanpg71 edited this message on 04/22/2008 8:43PM

Marcos El Ma-
lo

Avatar: Marcos El Malo's Avatar

Level 10 Troll

“Pain in the ASCII”

Sancdar Posted:

I think that would destroy the “theme” that I see behind the clbum. Camwhores make money and easily derail threads with Escher-quality pics. Emo kids thrive on pain. Trolls are relentless low-level annoyances. Making it so Trolls play like a flat-broke Camwhore is lame.

I do see what you’re saying, which is why I thought it was the better idea, just not as easy to implement as merely improving troll attacks slightly. What about some sort of healing move for trolls? Something like “nurse ego” that would allow trolls to regain points without resorting to consumables? Maybe make your defense bonus applicable only to this, so it’s a unique troll advantage.

Arktor

Avatar: Schoolgirl Uniform
24

[Smooth Town Rebels]

Level 10 Camwhore

Medal Ninja

Marcos El Malo Posted:

I do see what you’re saying, which is why I thought it was the better idea, just not as easy to implement as merely improving troll attacks slightly. What about some sort of healing move for trolls? Something like “nurse ego” that would allow trolls to regain points without resorting to consumables? Maybe make your defense bonus applicable only to this, so it’s a unique troll advantage.

What about adding a second rank of fap that restores a large amount of (say, 100) ego at the cost of, say, 10 douchebaggery (same 9-turn and 3-offense)? I think it sticks with the theme pretty well, trolls (at least in my experience) seem to restore their own ego pretty effectively.

Arktor edited this message on 04/22/2008 8:51PM

Sancdar

Avatar: Sancdar's Avatar
35

[Team Shortbus]

Level 50 Camwhore

LCC club

Marcos El Malo Posted:

I do see what you’re saying, which is why I thought it was the better idea, just not as easy to implement as merely improving troll attacks slightly. What about some sort of healing move for trolls? Something like “nurse ego” that would allow trolls to regain points without resorting to consumables? Maybe make your defense bonus applicable only to this, so it’s a unique troll advantage.

That’s an interesting idea too. I’m a bit reluctant to support it because it would drastically change Trolls. You’d HAVE to buy the skill, like camwhores with Pump It Up, which would have to change level/stat progression somehow. You’d also need to rethink cooldowns on all the Troll skills because on 6-bars everyone would be spamming the move, but that could make their skills have too high a cooldown for players progressing through the 4-bars. Douchebaggery could start to be an issue, I hear those consumables are pretty pricey too, but I don’t know.

Balancing either idea is pretty awkward. If Nurse Ego were an early skill, it would have to be effective early and late in the game. Even if it’s just late-game, if it’s useful enough to decrease XR use by a couple on 6-bar forums, 4/5-bars might not need any consumables, or the easier 6-bars might be a cakewalk. The endgame mission could be too easy for a troll with either change. What are typical defense values for trolls throughout the game? When do they usually acquire the various good pieces of equipment?

Either way it’ll be a major change to the clbum, but I can’t get behind something that would change playstyle so much without thinking it out more.

Edit: Arktor’s suggested values make a good amount of sense I guess.

Sancdar edited this message on 04/22/2008 8:53PM

Marcos El Ma-
lo

Avatar: Marcos El Malo's Avatar

Level 10 Troll

“Pain in the ASCII”

Arktor Posted:

What about adding a second rank of fap that restores a large amount of (say, 100) ego at the cost of, say, 10 douchebaggery (same 9-turn and 3-offense)? I think it sticks with the theme pretty well, trolls (at least in my experience) seem to restore their own ego pretty effectively.

What would it be called? What could possible be greater then fapping?

. . .

. . .

. . .

Wait! I know!

Two-handed fapping!

FAIL

Avatar: 36735 2015-06-13 23:04:37 -0400
6

[Full of SbumSS]

Level 25 Re-Re

Head of the Ministry of Man bumes

I have been thinking of making a troll for awhile now (it’s the only clbum I don’t have an alt of), but I have heard from multiple people that it isn’t worth it.

Should I make one? If I did I would level the re-re to 8 before becoming a troll to get caturday maybe, any thoughts?

Also, defaced mona lisa looks pretty epic. It doesn’t seem very feasible though since trolls appear to be pretty expensive while not having very high charisma.

Marcos El Ma-
lo

Avatar: Marcos El Malo's Avatar

Level 10 Troll

“Pain in the ASCII”

Has anyone gotten the Mona Lisa? Has it ever appeared in the ppwn shoppe?

evilhamster

Avatar: evilhamster's Avatar
10

[The Fondler of Bal-
lsacks
]

Level 34 Emo Kid

“Cutty Cutterson”

FAIL Posted:

I have been thinking of making a troll for awhile now (it’s the only clbum I don’t have an alt of), but I have heard from multiple people that it isn’t worth it.

Should I make one? If I did I would level the re-re to 8 before becoming a troll to get caturday maybe, any thoughts?

Also, defaced mona lisa looks pretty epic. It doesn’t seem very feasible though since trolls appear to be pretty expensive while not having very high charisma.

I don’t think the rere attacks are worthwhile in terms of upgrade points for any other clbum.

Sancdar

Avatar: Sancdar's Avatar
35

[Team Shortbus]

Level 50 Camwhore

LCC club

Marcos El Malo Posted:

Has anyone gotten the Mona Lisa? Has it ever appeared in the ppwn shoppe?

I bet a cheater character somewhere has one.

Bigguyinblack

Avatar: Bigguyinblack's Avatar
4

[Mock TSB]

Level 10 Troll

i'm so lonely... i have no friends... plz help...

Don’t bother going from Re-Re to troll. While Douchebaggery items are expensive without healing abilities I only go through 3-4 of them on the hardest forums.

Yesterday I did 2 runs of Memebusters at 12 threads and 9 runs at 14 threads. Each run I spent an average of 4 Jimson Weed 5x Extract and 7 Smileprin XR™ costing me about 16,000 Flezz in repairs and consumables. Today I sold junk for a total of 18,500 Flezz giving me a profit of about 250 Flezz per run. That’s about the same as what I earn on PP so I’m switching to Memebusters as my preferred forum.

My Camwhore did 4 visits at 14 threads each using 3-4 L’ORLY Lipstick per visit and repairs of about 500-650 per run and earned 7,500 in junk.

Bigguyinblack edited this message on 04/23/2008 9:22AM
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