scullyangel Posted:

It’s terribly annoying for the job board. I’ve been slogging away at the job board for awhile now (I’ll finally hit the 1800 peen this week), but I would have been able to finish as much as 3 weeks sooner had I been able to always select a 5 point job. Will that situation impact many players? No.

It’s not because of the imbalance. Even as a troll I still have to avoid speedrun jobs as much as I can, because many of them are impossible. And oddly enough a camwhore is topping it Log in to see images!

quangntenemy Posted:

So what are you guys suggesting? Different clbumes with attacks that deal the same damage but different names? And maybe we can create 100 such clbumes to make the game more fun?

I think the only problem is that hacker’s attacks have too high refresh rates, and I’d love to see them lowered.

I’m not suggesting anything, I’m just trying to get a dialogue going. It’s simply an observation that of the four regular clbumes, one of them is significantly better than the other three when you’re talking high level characters with good equipment. It’s entirely possible that this is fine, and we just don’t care that one clbum is “the best” since there’s always going to be something that’s the best. It’s entirely possible that we decide that trolls are fine, and other clbumes just need to be brought up to their levels, and it’s entirely possible that we decide that trolls are too good and need to be brought back to the pack a little bit. I have no dog in this fight.

I do, however, think that political flamebait having an attack of 350, a cost of 8 DB, and a refresh of 1 is sort of our of line with other clbumes “best attacks”: Everybody hurts has an attack of 220, a refresh of 1, and a cost of 15 tears; Fetish Pics has an attack of 225, a refresh of 1, and a cost of 15 sexiness; ipz has has an attack of 200-210, a refresh of 6(!), and a cost of 7 PP. Since all these clbumes have roughly the same offense for level capped characters, and we recently the clbumes because some were doing too much damage, it’s entirely possible that we didn’t exactly balance them correctly.

I mean, ET obviously cared enough about clbum balance at one point to take some data, and do some tinkering, in an attempt to make things “better” according to what his standards were. There’s no guarantee (in fact, it’s far from probable) that the system he set up once was perfect.

Possibly a Cabbage Posted:

I’m not suggesting anything, I’m just trying to get a dialogue going. It’s simply an observation that of the four regular clbumes, one of them is significantly better than the other three when you’re talking high level characters with good equipment. It’s entirely possible that this is fine, and we just don’t care that one clbum is “the best” since there’s always going to be something that’s the best. It’s entirely possible that we decide that trolls are fine, and other clbumes just need to be brought up to their levels, and it’s entirely possible that we decide that trolls are too good and need to be brought back to the pack a little bit. I have no dog in this fight.

I do, however, think that political flamebait having an attack of 350, a cost of 8 DB, and a refresh of 1 is sort of our of line with other clbumes “best attacks”: Everybody hurts has an attack of 220, a refresh of 1, and a cost of 15 tears; Fetish Pics has an attack of 225, a refresh of 1, and a cost of 15 sexiness; ipz has has an attack of 200-210, a refresh of 6(!), and a cost of 7 PP. Since all these clbumes have roughly the same offense for level capped characters, and we recently the clbumes because some were doing too much damage, it’s entirely possible that we didn’t exactly balance them correctly.

I mean, ET obviously cared enough about clbum balance at one point to take some data, and do some tinkering, in an attempt to make things “better” according to what his standards were. There’s no guarantee (in fact, it’s far from probable) that the system he set up once was perfect.

To be accurate, the top ‘tier’ hacker attack was Avtr, with a refresh of 1, a cost of 10, and an attack of piddling 100-110. Prior to nerf, this was the comparison one as I recall around 200-ish attack or more. It merely got nerfed so much, the second most powerful one became that powerful one.

KindFearlessLeader Posted:

To be accurate, the top ‘tier’ hacker attack was Avtr, with a refresh of 1, a cost of 10, and an attack of piddling 100-110. Prior to nerf, this was the comparison one as I recall around 200-ish attack or more. It merely got nerfed so much, the second most powerful one became that powerful one.

Yeah, I mostly moved avtr out of the top tier because now it, quite frankly, isn’t very good. You mostly use it (along with a bevvy of other low refresh skills) to give you time while ipz, 404, and recipe refresh.

Evil Trout Posted:

Additionally, we are going to be using a different metric for speedrunning, something like turns used instead of time.

Hopefully this will be heavily dependent on clbum, since I can only use ipz and recipe (my only 200 power+ attacks) every 6 and 8 turns, respectively. Log in to see images!

You guys are also forgetting about one of the most underpowered things hackers have the starter pack.

Hacker

luck+2

ego+10

\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

Trolls

Defence+8

\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

Emo Kids

Charisma +1

Offense +4

Defense +3

\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

Camwhores

Charisma +5

Offense +1

\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

Compared to the rest hackers starter packs don’t give anything

It should be more like this;

Hacker

luck+2

ego+10

pp+25

offense+1

\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

Trolls

Defence+8

\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

Emo Kids

Charisma +1

Offense +4

Defense +2

\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

Camwhores

Charisma +5

Offense +1

\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

Possibly a Cabbage Posted:

To be accurate, the top ‘tier’ hacker attack was Avtr, with a refresh of 1, a cost of 10, and an attack of piddling 100-110. Prior to nerf, this was the comparison one as I recall around 200-ish attack or more. It merely got nerfed so much, the second most powerful one became that powerful one.

Oh avtr is totally horrible, but I think that accents the problem really Log in to see images! KindFearlessLeader edited this message on 02/23/2009 11:49AM

pieyum Posted:

You guys are also forgetting about one of the most underpowered things hackers have the starter pack.

Hacker

luck+2

ego+10

\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

Trolls

Defence+8

\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

Emo Kids

Charisma +1

Offense +4

Defense +3

\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

Camwhores

Charisma +5

Offense +1

\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

Compared to the rest hackers starter packs don’t give anything

For context, technically, that’s partially equipment balanced. Look at Hacker top tier equipment versus theirs. Hacker top tier primary equipment gives an awe inspiring +60 off, +60 def, +40 luck. About 400 upgrade points worth of stats.

Comparetively, the troll’s best primary equipment is +10 off, +35 off. About 135 upgrade points worth of stats. Outside of that, both clbumes equip pretty much the same secondary equipment (varied for their build needs).

so add in the points from the bonus pack (x4): Hackers add a meger about 10 upgrade points really (Rounding the +40 ego to 2). Trolls add an astonishing 96 points.

but sum those:

Hackers: 410

Trolls: 231

And it becomes fairly obvious that hackers should be killing trolls, and last I checked, statistically they really do. It’s largely their ridiculously weak and refresh ridden attack and their equipment based processing power set that holds them down in spite of pretty much having a huge base of stat points. Their equipment actually ends up producing lower upkeep costs since each one works off a lower cost base and the other clbumes have equipment costing four times as much. Having easier processing power (as another suggested) would really help them tons, but their starter pack looks pretty sensible in context of their primary equipment being vastly better on the stat front.

other fun numbers:

Summing the off and def on my hacker vs my troll: Troll 260 vs hacker 303. 43 stat points of difference, and they’re both pretty heavily into offense and defense. That’s nearly the trolls Primary Equipment value right there.

Nicco Posted:

My Emo deals about 5500 damage with Everybody Hurts when his Ego is below 30. I deal about 4300 damage with Political Flamebait.

Mind if I ask what your base ego/offense are? I’ve been trying to figure out which is more important and flamebate searching isn’t serving me so well.

Nicco Posted:

If you’re trying to pwn Geronimo! just dump all your upgrade points into Offense. My emo has 151 offense and 335 ego.

I guess I’m more looking for a way to do lvl 35s sans consumables, if such a thing is feasible.