Who made the universe?

If god made the universe, who made god.

If you’re going to say that the universe requires a creator, because nothing can exist without being made, then you face the same problem with god. Conversely if god is allowed to exist as a ‘bald fact’ then so can the universe.

Allah created the universe. If he didn’t exist there would be no universe.

Catt although Posted:

Question – which is more likely, that the world around us came in to be being from nothing (over billions of years), or that an immortal, all knowing entity with the ability to create galaxies by just thinking about it came into being from nothing?

both equally unlikely Log in to see images!

Also, why does no one ever propose the theory that there was a creator of the universe (or at least our part of it) but like everything else it had a finite lifespan and is now dead?

Catt although Posted:

Also, why does no one ever propose the theory that there was a creator of the universe (or at least our part of it) but like everything else it had a finite lifespan and is now dead?

That’s actually something I’ve never heard put forth or considered.

It would fall under the Deist reasoning, that there was a creator who after making everything, washed his hands of it and disappeared.

Malaise Posted:

I salute you sir or madam as the first person to correctly use the phrase “begs the question” in the history of Forumwarz. Possibly in the history of the internetz.

I came close to reflexively saying that begging the question doesn’t mean raising the question, but then I re-read it and realised it was actually being used correctly.

Mind. Blown.

Inertia Posted:

I’ve heard of something like that… Alien civilization about to perish and came to Earth so life on Earth are basically offshots of those aliens.

That would provide an answer to the origins of life on Earth, but just shifts the question to “Where did the aliens come from?” Also an alien civilisation would likely already be a highly specialised organism, so we wouldn’t see the evidence of a very simple common ancestor for life on Earth.

Panspermia in general though, could be plausible – they’ve found amino acids formed naturally on comets, so a ridiculously simple form of life might have been able to come about in such an environment then come crashing down to Earth. Other theories abound though.

Shii Posted:

Except supernatural entities aren’t bound by physics, namely the Second Law of Thermodynamics. You can’t have an infinite system because everything shuts down. This would include the universe, and requires that the universe have a starting point.

EDIT: Furthermore, Law of Conservation of Mbum states matter can not be created or destroyed, only its form changed. Combine that with the Second Law as stated above and you have a nice paradox in which the universe can’t be infinitely old yet could not have been created.

I don’t know enough of quantum mechanics to argue it properly, but I remember reading ideas for origins involving higher-dimensional branes colliding (and their intersection being our universe, with fewer dimensions) or the observable universe originating with a bubble of low entropy, formed as a fluctuation in a mostly homogeneous background of higher entropy.

Like I said, don’t know enough to argue about these, but I know there are theories out there that aim to explain things without resorting to the supernatural. Bringing in god as an entity who, by definition, can break all the normal rules just seems like way to do a sneaky end-run around the rules, rather than actually answer anything.

EDIT: Ack ****, why aren’t my quote tags working properly? Log in to see images! man-man edited this message on 09/04/2009 12:12PM

Thanks, fixed.

One capital Q broke 3 separate quotes? Damn…

The Holy Prophet Muhammed Posted:

For the promise of a life after this one is far more hopeful and fantastical that the belief that all will simply fade into oblivion.

You are presuming that there is no version of life after death without a diety. That is a separate argument.

Aldo_Anything Posted:

The universe is looping infinitely and may even produce additional universes while doing so. Not to speak of parallel universes resulting from quantum mechanics.

No god required.

What started it doing that?