was Posted:

But it might make it easier for other klans to raid. Instead of them either waiting for another klan’s 6+ hour raid to finish, or attempt to shoe horn their way in and hope that they ever get 12 forums before their visits run out.

Not true, two klans can easily raid at the same time and still not have to rush anything. We did just that last raid. With 35, soon 36 forums it is actually preferable to raid two klans at once to speed things up a bit.

to be fair, we should not be blaming Brainfreeze for taking advantage of the flawed system, if it was not them it would have been somebody else.

Also it is not surprising that somebody would actually take advantage of a klan like Brainfeeze just to join a raid, get 200 scoops, and brag to ev1 how awesome they are when in fact all they did was ride the Klan’s coattales. They could have a crappy char with a bad build it wont matter with 200 scoops every round.

I agree with Vuron also that antifreeze and choc was capped but not vanilla. thats just silly. It encourages the type of behavior i state above.

Guys the whole “No, you just suck.” thing is ridiculous and unhelpful. I like Domination. I would like to see more players actively competing. I would love to see skillful klan raiding turn into an interesting advantage rather than a necessity for aggressive Domination play. It would be nice if the klan raiders would stop slinging bull**** and take a freaking step back for a second and consider the game as a whole. There are a lot of players, many have earned medals in the past, so they aren’t just Dom newbies who can’t hack it, openly stating that they are no longer having any fun playing Domination. Considering how many players don’t post on Flamebate, those voices imply that a much larger number of players are not having fun. That isn’t cool.

People are currently arguing separate things and it seems silly to keep that up.

Argument 1 is that vanilla is already capped by visits. This is true in general, but not specifically for any given character. It is extremely misleading to claim that vanilla is currently capped by anything except available time and characters (not visits.)

The argument from the outside is that you can’t raid for 10 hours – that argument is correct. A klan can could raid 24 hours if they wanted to, but an individual character cannot. Unless you happen to be in charge of Great Firewall or Second Wife, any individual player is not going to make visits stretch 10 hours. The advantage in klan vanilla comes out when you are out of visits yet still earning scoops. I can pistachio loop, speed lemon and earn a solo vanilla for every visit over 4, but when I’m out of visits I’m done, as is damn near every person who doesn’t play the klan game. In a raiding klan I can do all that and then click to rejoin a raid and gain scoops on a character that is no longer contributing. Yes, they actively contributed and I am still contributing using a different character, but the ability to camp a character for 4, 6, 8, 10+ hours – is that what was intended? If that was the intent, I don’t think CZ would have put a time limit on the raid or created a join raid bumon. I certainly don’t think it was intended that someone could set up a program to auto-join raids whether online or sleeping or whatever as SG94 suggested. The initial vanilla nerf was in large part due to the fact that non-participating members were getting klan vanilla.

From the klan side, I can tell you if you’ve steadily been using visits for 2+ hours it feels like you are working for the vanilla you take home. I’m glad Brainfreeze have a super happy fun time raiding for 10 hours, but I don’t think most players would enjoy it or have the time available to commit to it. I also think it can be very discouraging to a player who does want to make a real attempt at playing Domination to think there is no point because they can’t play for 6 – 10 hours 3 times a week.

I do think a klan willing to organize enough to raid deserves a reward, it’s just finding the balance between unlimited raiding and eliminating any meaningful reward for putting in the effort that is the trick.

I don’t think the game should cater to players unwilling to do the basics. Those who have argued that they don’t have time to use their visits, so how can they compete are just being silly as hell. But, those who are doing everything possible with the exception of taking Domination as a part time job have a pretty freaking valid point. I posted some possible ideas a couple of pages back: A time restriction forcing a certain wait time before a person (character) can join another raid, limit to the number of participants, a condition check requiring that a player actually hold one of the 12 forums in order to receive a scoop, an increase for solo vanilla.

A couple more possibilities? A hard limit on the number of raids a character can join per week. Additional Domination cards diluting the card pool would also be a serious help.

My personal choices would be requiring that a player control one of the 12 forums in order to receive a scoop and an increase in Domination cards.

Goth_Jesus Posted:

Oh? And which is the other clan with 200 scoops?

One of the last raids we ran (before the one last night), we were raiding at the same time as Good Omens.

I think he was referring to the last raid before the one we’re currently discussing that he was part of.

Why don’t we just cap how many people can join any given raid? It seems like the main problem is with huge Klans who have a large pool of visits, so a limit of somewhere between 10-20 participants would limit an astronomical yield (though still allow for considerable amounts with efficient leadership). While raids could still be conducted back to back, visit-less participants would be far less welcome as they would take up valuable slots, solving the problem of members racking up tons of scoops without using a single visit.

Tarman Posted:

That wouldn’t help. Brainfreeze doesn’t typically have more than 20 people in a raid at the same time…

This is true. To hit 20 people in the same raid is something of a miracle for us… even when you do include alts.

Tarman Posted:

but over 10 hours and 5 raids, that’s up to 100 people.

Up to 100 people, bumuming no one has visits left to contribute to the next 2 hour block and everyone only participates in *1* block.

As far as capping it so people can only participate in one raid session per day/week – that just plain SUCKS. Two hours isn’t enough to get through a raid anymore. We have 36 forums now and turnover is horribly slow if you let it happen naturally. With just 5 raiders with 12 visits, it’s rare to run out of visits in a single 2 hour raid block.

Part of me says make the threshold higher, but that doesn’t do anything other than *increase* turnover and burn a few extra visits at the beginning of the raid. It’d make them go faster, but the scoopage would only decrease by a very few. (Most likely a single digit number, possibly between 10-20 – not enough effect, really.)

I don’t know that there is a solution that won’t only serve to further “break” the game. The scoops already got nerfed (could you imagine that raid as a 3 scoop per pwn raid?!?) and they’ve made it so that only the people that have joined the raid are actually earning scoops.

I can speak for Brainfreeze, though, in saying that anyone signed into the raid is earning their scoops – either by leading the raid, counting or pwning the forums. Often a combination of the three. From what I’ve seen elsewhere, it looks like Good Omens is about the same – it’s not like people are loading up on the scoops without participating.

Tarman Posted:

That wouldn’t help. Brainfreeze doesn’t typically have more than 20 people in a raid at the same time… but over 10 hours and 5 raids, that’s up to 100 people.

Up to 100 people only getting scoops from one of those raids. As it is now, if you have five raids in a row you can have most of the Klan join all five while only using visits in one. With a cap on participants it will be far less likely for members to earn scoops on raids other than the ones they contribute to.

it might impact brainfreezes

I feel like it has to be shown:

http://forumwarz.com/domination/show_team/2

Honestly… is this fair?