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God is fake. Gods are fake.
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BirdofPrey Posted:
Philosophy, logic, and probability may steer us in the right direction nonetheless. |
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| Posted On: 12/06/2008 9:28PM |
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generichaxor Posted:
i don’t really believe in god in the clbumic judeo-christian sense. i’m still working out my personal philosophy but as it stands now it goes more along the lines of David Bohm’s theories. |
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| Posted On: 12/06/2008 9:28PM |
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Inertia Posted:
wtf are you talkin about |
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| Posted On: 12/06/2008 9:29PM |
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BirdofPrey Posted:
BirdofPrey Posted:
and what if he never existed? then, this logic is not a doomed endeavor. Instead, it is quite worthwhile. And if ur so-called “God” did actually exist, there has to be proof somewhere.
So show it please |
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| Posted On: 12/06/2008 9:29PM |
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generichaxor Posted:
buhhhhhh duhhhh durrrr
read what i wrote again, and then re-read your comments and try to figure out why they are dumb. |
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| Posted On: 12/06/2008 9:31PM |
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generichaxor Posted:
You are correct. Nothing leaves no remnant. Whether it is energy, matter, or something we yet do not understand, there must be information pointing to a diety if such exists.
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| Posted On: 12/06/2008 9:32PM |
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well this is obviously hopeless |
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| Posted On: 12/06/2008 9:33PM |
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BirdofPrey Posted:
Because you said you can reason God’s existence, because he operates outside the laws of the universe. I don’t this that statement is correct for the reason I stated. |
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| Posted On: 12/06/2008 9:33PM |
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Inertia: Your first three “proofs” are all the cosmological argument in fancy dress. We can all agree there must have been “the first movement”, but to attribute the qualities of omnipotence, omniscience etc that we attribute to god has no explanation. Argument from degree: You are creating a thing which does not necessarly exist. Some cats are bigger than others, does this mean there must be a cat bigger than we can possibly imagine? Teological argument: Nice word play, but I remain unconvinced. Acting towards an end is indeed a characteristic of intelligence, but it is not in itself a proof of inteligence. |
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| Posted On: 12/06/2008 9:33PM |
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Inertia Posted:
If something can affect our current world, it MUST operate within it. Not in its entirety, but there must be some overlap so effects can be seen. Our world operates under our laws, therefore the presence of God within our world must show some effects. DarkDespair5 edited this message on 12/06/2008 9:36PM |
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| Posted On: 12/06/2008 9:33PM |
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Good thread imo, OP is sucessful |
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| Posted On: 12/06/2008 9:34PM |
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Inertia Posted:
how can you possibly say that logic is a separate entity from the laws of the universe. our version of formal logic works because we are using the laws of the system within the system. logic is, in essence, a branch of mathematics (or is it the other way around?) |
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| Posted On: 12/06/2008 9:35PM |
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Schiznit Posted:
Oh I just copypastad it from Thomas Aquinas page in wikipedia. I agree with what you said about the 5th argument |
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| Posted On: 12/06/2008 9:36PM |
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DarkDespair5 Posted:
Something operating outside of the universe could change things within it so that it had always been that way. they could change things from the ground up so nobody could ever know. how do you propose this would leave a remnant?
you are still thinking of things from inside the box.
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| Posted On: 12/06/2008 9:38PM |
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BirdofPrey Posted:
BirdofPrey Posted:
ur god is immune to the laws of the universe, not logic |
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| Posted On: 12/06/2008 9:39PM |
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I don’t exist. |
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| Posted On: 12/06/2008 9:40PM |
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generichaxor Posted:
logic is part of the laws of the universe |
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| Posted On: 12/06/2008 9:40PM |
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BirdofPrey Posted:
Yes, because if something enters the box, it must act within the laws of that box. Manipulating said box from the outside would show effects within the box. DarkDespair5 edited this message on 12/06/2008 9:43PM |
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| Posted On: 12/06/2008 9:41PM |
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BirdofPrey Posted:
I bumumed that the laws of the universe meant physics, physical laws like motion etc. God could defy them but logic is still logic. Logic still stands even when physics breaks I think. Logic isn’t part of the law. Logic is the tool which enable us to discover the laws in the first place. |
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| Posted On: 12/06/2008 9:43PM |
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DarkDespair5 Posted:
where are you getting this from? explain to me how you reached this conclusion.
a 3d creature could reach down and tear out the insides of a 2-d creature without touching the outside of the 2d creature. he is not acting within the laws of 2-dness. |
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| Posted On: 12/06/2008 9:44PM |
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