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Writing A very SERIOUS discussion about Antifreeze Scoops. Seriously.

WetSocket

Avatar: WetSocket's Avatar
8

Level 10 Emo Kid

“Gloomy Gus”

Currently, there is no limit to antifreeze scoops and no foreseeable slowdown in their use as a growing number of members are reaching higher and higher Flezz™ amounts. Here are some quick facts about the number of scoops you can earn in a week for each scoop type:
Antifreeze: >500
Chocolate: 20-100
Lemon: 84
Pistachio: ~25
Vanilla: >200

The only ones with hard cap limits are Lemon and Pistachio, as they are the easiest to acquire. Chocolate requires creativity and it is not very often a single submission will pbum 100 votes (20 scoops). Vanilla requires a large time investment and teamwork in a Klan as well as visits, so the high value there may be accompanied slightly by some drawbacks. Antifreeze requires only a decent initial bankroll (15000 Flezz™ ) and a basic strategy table, so why the huge payoff?
Now, as seen in several domination brackets, people are acquiring record amounts of antifreeze scoops and in many instances making large amounts of Flezz™ off of it. Here are several proposed changes, to antifreeze only, that I think should be implemented.

1. Limit Antifreeze scoops to 20 per day. Have Gamblebot say something along the lines of “I believe you are running third party programs”, “I have been informed that you have a warrant out for your arrest”

2. Implement a lottery system. Have tickets cost 1000 Flezz™ and you receive an antifreeze scoop for every X tickets you purchase. The payout may vary from 1 Flezz™ to 10,000 Flezz™ and you could include some cheesy scratch game with it if you cared or just make it instantly tell you your winnings.

3. Remove Antifreeze from Blackjack bets and implement it into “Guess my Number”. We all know there is no way to profit off that game. In the spirit of Antifreeze you should be making stupid decisions, not working the system multiple ways at once.

Thank you.
WS

jpsteel

Avatar: jpsteel's Avatar
10

Level 10 Emo Kid

Hello Kitty Underwear Aficionado

I agree with scoop/betting limits to balance out the gameplay. The current system was implemented before people had tons of excess flezz to gamble with so I think it deserves a revision.

Good post Wetsock Log in to see images!

scully

Avatar: 12797 2011-08-15 04:41:50 -0400
77

[Good Omens]

Level 69 Camwhore

I'd build a road in gold just to have some dreaming...

Antifreeze is a bit of a nightmare. The amount of time needed to gamble is huge and if you aren’t doing it, you just don’t have a chance in Domination once you get past 2 or 3 medals. (Or possibly this is yet another area that everyone is using some sort of bot and I’m just clueless about it.)

On the flip side, without antifreeze, any small klan or solo player will never again have a chance against klan vanilla.

Really things are pretty good right now. A larger dedication of time results in more scoops, that seems pretty fair.

WetSocket

Avatar: WetSocket's Avatar
8

Level 10 Emo Kid

“Gloomy Gus”

Scully, name one newbie who has the knowledge or Flezz™ to run gamblebot for hours and compete against vanilla runs, coordinated attacks, and gamblebot players.

Pickled male reproductive organ-
bum

Avatar: Pickled Dickbutt's Avatar
47

[Board of Directors]

Level 10 Camwhore

AHAHA HEADSETS

the antifreeze/vanilla teams aren’t for newbies anyway. dedicated players will either seek out the clans for their vanilla goodness, or grind for yellows and flezz, to gamble with.

Marcos El Ma-
lo

Avatar: Marcos El Malo's Avatar

Level 10 Troll

“Pain in the ASCII”

WetSocket Posted:

Scully, name one newbie who has the knowledge or Flezz™ to run gamblebot for hours and compete against vanilla runs, coordinated attacks, and gamblebot players.

I missed the part where she mentioned newbz.

WetSocket

Avatar: WetSocket's Avatar
8

Level 10 Emo Kid

“Gloomy Gus”

Marcos El Malo Posted:

I missed the part where she mentioned newbz.

Marcos, wrong forum to troll in. If you don’t want to discuss it take your unfunny self to RP. This is to encourage new players to play domination and discuss how the current antifreeze spamathon can be remedied.

Pickled male reproductive organ-
bum

Avatar: Pickled Dickbutt's Avatar
47

[Board of Directors]

Level 10 Camwhore

AHAHA HEADSETS

i think he meant it. i think he was pointing out that she wasn’t talking about newbs.

Marcos El Ma-
lo

Avatar: Marcos El Malo's Avatar

Level 10 Troll

“Pain in the ASCII”

WetSocket Posted:

Marcos, wrong forum to troll in. If you don’t want to discuss it take your unfunny self to RP. This is to encourage new players to play domination and discuss how the current antifreeze spamathon can be remedied.

Yeah. Good one. Ha. I think you owe me an apology.

EDIT: That’s two strawmen and one ad hominem. What else ya got?

Marcos El Malo edited this message on 04/21/2008 1:57AM

WetSocket

Avatar: WetSocket's Avatar
8

Level 10 Emo Kid

“Gloomy Gus”

Marcos El Malo Posted:

Yeah. Good one. Ha. I think you owe me an apology.

EDIT: That’s two strawmen and one ad hominem. What else ya got?

Please discuss the topic at hand, if you have a problem with what I said take it to TM, as it stands your discussion has not mentioned AF scoops at all. I’m all for the trolling and RP trolling, but if you read the title this is a very serious discussion. It says it twice see, seriously.

Marcos El Ma-
lo

Avatar: Marcos El Malo's Avatar

Level 10 Troll

“Pain in the ASCII”

WetSocket Posted:

Please discuss the topic at hand, if you have a problem with what I said take it to TM, as it stands your discussion has not mentioned AF scoops at all. I’m all for the trolling and RP trolling, but if you read the title this is a very serious discussion. It says it twice see, seriously.

Look, ****. I’m reading this thread to learn. I see you either MISTAKENLY attack a dissenting opinion or do it on purpose due to intellectual dishonesty. I bumume the former, and kindly point it out SO YOU CAN DISCUSS THE FRIGGING TOPIC WITHOUT GETTING LOST IN A MISUNDERSTANDING.

You’re the one turning this into a RP exercise, not me. If you want to get back to the discussion instead of being a ****ing baby, go ahead. Nothing would make me happier. I’m reading this thread to LEARN.

Carry on.

WetSocket

Avatar: WetSocket's Avatar
8

Level 10 Emo Kid

“Gloomy Gus”

Marcos El Malo Posted:

Look, ****. I’m reading this thread to learn. I see you either MISTAKENLY attack a dissenting opinion or do it on purpose due to intellectual dishonesty. I bumume the former, and kindly point it out SO YOU CAN DISCUSS THE FRIGGING TOPIC WITHOUT GETTING LOST IN A MISUNDERSTANDING.

You’re the one turning this into a RP exercise, not me. If you want to get back to the discussion instead of being a ****ing baby, go ahead. Nothing would make me happier. I’m reading this thread to LEARN.

Carry on.

Sorry for the misunderstanding, thought you were trolling me. Seriously.

Funcdizzi

Avatar: Funcdizzi's Avatar
9

[70 Character Story-
tellers
]

Level 20 Camwhore

Master of Sex and Voodoo

Even with the sharpest tables and the deepest pockets, the current incarnation of Blackjack favors the house. If it were possible to card count against gamble-bot I’d agree there’s a problem. As it stands, someone may get on a hot streak, but overall gambling for Antifreeze is a Flezz-sink.

Marcos El Ma-
lo

Avatar: Marcos El Malo's Avatar

Level 10 Troll

“Pain in the ASCII”

WetSocket Posted:

Sorry for the misunderstanding, thought you were trolling me. Seriously.

I wasn’t. I’m sorry I called you a ****. Log in to see images!

Maybe I’m getting cranky and should go to bed.

scully

Avatar: 12797 2011-08-15 04:41:50 -0400
77

[Good Omens]

Level 69 Camwhore

I'd build a road in gold just to have some dreaming...

Now boys, do you need a spanking? Log in to see images! [/dominatrix character]

Wetsocket Posted:

Scully, name one newbie who has the knowledge or Flezz™ to run gamblebot for hours and compete against vanilla runs, coordinated attacks, and gamblebot players.

I agree that it’s daunting, I just think that Domination as a game is more of a progressive thing.

Brand new player – probably not going to do diddly the first week.

Week 2 or 3 – interested players are far enough along to have an idea about speed running, are probably learning how to chain lemon/pistachio – have a chance to pick up a medal or two, since they are in unmedals pods

Low medal count pods – lemon/pistachio can still win with a lucky pod draw, you need to start gambling or be in a vanilla klan to guarantee a win

High medal count pods – vanilla and gambling will win, no other options

At this point, eliminating or nerfing the gambled anti-freeze will simply hand the medals to whichever klan can pull the most members to it’s 2 raids. I think this would discourage far more players than the current system. At least right now a player knows that they do have a non-vanilla option if they are willing to grind for flezz.

I’d just like to wait and see really. New medals have been hinted at, a wonderful group of new Dom cards is being considered, the new mini game is possibly going to have a scoop reward – these could all have a large effect on how things are played and whether hours and hours of gambling will be worthwhile.

Vuron

Avatar: 4928 2011-07-31 00:39:10 -0400
13

[Team Shortbus]

Level 40 Emo Kid

Vile serpent! I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it.

Honestly I don’t take domination too seriously so I don’t really feel personally invested in the problem or any potential solutions but I do think it’s relatively obvious that the AF and Klan Vanilla systems basically lock anyone not in a competitive clan out of the domination hunt.

Antifreeze has been an issue for a while and eventually it will probably receive a nerfing of some sort. Maybe that will be a hard cap in the number of AF scoops you can gain in a week or changing the payout from one AF every 2 successful 1000 bets to once every 5 or even 10 successful bets.

That would encourage people to gamble within their means rather than continually risk their entire pot of   on a desperate attempt to scratch out another AF scoop.

I think the vanilla raid system still needs quite a bit of work but that is a discussion for another day.

scully

Avatar: 12797 2011-08-15 04:41:50 -0400
77

[Good Omens]

Level 69 Camwhore

I'd build a road in gold just to have some dreaming...

It’s off topic here, but I have to say, I think people are seriously overestimating the power of klan vanilla outside of the low medal pods at this point.

Large scale vanilla based klans are going to break down over time. Too many people from the same klan make medal sharing a nightmare. If you watch the pods, certain people are definitely benefiting more than others. It’s not going to take a huge amount of time for the players who are constantly contributing, but somehow missing out on the reward, to decide that it’s not worth it.

In addition small klan vanilla is utterly possible. I did a 2 player plus one alt raid a week ago that pulled lemon/pistachio the whole time along with 15 klan vanilla and 3 solo vanilla. People are seriously overestimating the difficulty of klan vanilla.

scully edited this message on 04/21/2008 2:39AM

Vuron

Avatar: 4928 2011-07-31 00:39:10 -0400
13

[Team Shortbus]

Level 40 Emo Kid

Vile serpent! I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it.

scullyangel Posted:

It’s off topic here, but I have to say, I think people are seriously overestimating the power of klan vanilla outside of the low medal pods at this point.

Large scale vanilla based klans are going to break down over time. Too many people from the same klan make medal sharing a nightmare. If you watch the pods, certain people are definitely benefiting more than others. It’s not going to take a huge amount of time for the players who are constantly contributing, but somehow missing out on the reward, to decide that it’s not worth it.

I would have to concur with this point as it definitely seems that the rewards are not necessarily being shared evenly across all of the raiders in a klan. Further it seems that despite the temptation to backstab it’s more profitable to arrange multi-person scoop ties among multiple klan members.

One possible solution (albiet quite nasty) would be to eliminate all scoop ties entirely. Without ties (or even if you reduced ties from 5-way to 3-way or even 2-way) the game becomes far more cutthroat and the temptation to screw over competitors in your own clan is dramatically increased.

It really becomes about a single player being able to dominate all competition rather than a cooperative team sport.

scully

Avatar: 12797 2011-08-15 04:41:50 -0400
77

[Good Omens]

Level 69 Camwhore

I'd build a road in gold just to have some dreaming...

You might enjoy reading some of the new cards in the works:

http://www.forumwarz.com/discussions/view/4095?page=3

Scroll about 2/3 the way down to TOOH’s post. The ability to use cards anonymously is an idea that if full of joy and goodwill. Log in to see images!

Sancdar

Avatar: Sancdar's Avatar
21

[Team Shortbus]

Level 31 Camwhore

LCC club

I’m of the opinion that AF scoops are far too plentiful. It’s true, you do need luck, you do need time, but they are still much easier to exploit than any other type. I don’t think a major nerf is in order, but just something to stem the tide of gambler-dominated pods. Without klans trying damn hard to tie every week, I guarantee that a heavy gambler would be at the front of all major pods.

I don’t think increasing the number of winning bets needed to get a scoop is the answer. It increases AF’s favor of people with too much time on their hands, while everyone else doesn’t have a game that’s really worth it.

With the current rules on GambleBot, I’m confident the house edge is under 1%, and somewhat confident it’s between 0.6% and 0.8%. Basically, you can keep going a LONG time if you have a big enough bank, at least enough for a few hundred scoops.

So, how do you fix it? There are a couple things you can do.


One: Increase the house edge.

-Add decks. It’s quick to do, and upping to 2 decks would make a major difference.

-Have GB hit on soft 17s (17 with an ace at 11). Once again, an easy change that majorly impacts odds.

There are other things you could do to change the house edge, but I think one or both of those would have the necessary impact.


Two: Change the role of Anti-Freeze

AF scoops are supposedly for doing something dangerous. Right now, you get them for doing something safe — playing the best strategy you can in Blackjack. Instead of a time-wasting reward, make them a Flezz-wasting reward. Give someone a scoop every time (or every two times) they double down in Blackjack, as well as every time they bet 1000  in Guess My Number. If you need some quick scoops for Domination, you can spend a few grand for them. You’ll still be able to grind out scoops in Blackjack, but at a slower rate.


I hope people will give my ideas some consideration, especially Crotch Zombie. I think the second suggestion especially could improve Domination while still allowing AF to play an important role and stopping people from building up ridiculous banks like they have been.

Sancdar edited this message on 04/21/2008 6:23AM
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