Recently there have been a lot of posts about how trolls are weaker than other clbumes. Well, I figured out how to get us, if not on par with the other clbumes, at least stronger than we are now.

First of all, level a re-re up to at least level 8. Once you get to 8, talk to Haxlrose to reset your upgrade points, and then buy only the two Cute Fuzzy Animal attacks. Then change your clbum to troll, and spend points as you desire. Tada! You now have Caturday and Hamster Parade, powerful attacks that cost no Douchebaggery to use!

Not to mention time- it takes a LONG time to get a re-re up to level 8.

That’ great… except you gain a 20-30 2 turn cooldown skill for 60 points? Not useful at all. Learn to put points into offense, trolls may have higher defense but it doesn’t mean you need 20 defense to gimp yourself and say you do no damage.

Let’s do some math to identify just how much trolls suck compared to camwhores. We’ll bumume a camwhore with defense 10, and a troll with defense 25, and that we’re attacking one of the lvl 6 forums because that’s where defense would help the most. (Note – this is theoretical – my troll is like level 5 or something currently)

The amout of damage you take per hit is:

camwhore: 24.67
troll:    20.83

The hit percentage I know less about, but let’s bumume the following:

camwhore: 75%   hit
troll:    52.5% hit

That makes the expected damage/round ignoring the free turn when you kill a thread:

camwhore: 18.5
troll:    10.9

The camwhores attacks are something like 3 times as strong, so she’s still going to take less damage overall and pay less to repair her stuff. Also, she’ll get more random **** the next day because of her charisma. She still come’s out ahead, but it doesn’t seem too bad. The defense is clearly helping the troll in some manner.

But here’s the kicker. Unless you’re doing a speedrun of some sort, you should probably be using pump me up whenever necessary as a camwhore. That means every 3rd turn you could be healing 35ish ego. Calculating for pump me up every 3rd round, the damage/round is the following:

camwhore: 10.25/non pump me up round
troll   : 10.9/round

So in addition to doing drastically more damage than the trolls and getting more stuff the next day, the camwhores can take less damage per attack than the trolls if they use pump me up (at the cost of more damage to the equipment, and more sexiness, but it’s really not that much).

I’m not sure that the douchbaggery saved by adding a couple more attacks with damages comparable to the existing troll attacks really does anything to shrink this gap.

——

As for fixing the trolls, I think simply having forums that do more damage might fix them by itself. With a defense of 25, you take 83% of the damage that you take with a defense of 10. When you’re taking 24 down to 22, it’s not a big deal. Going from 60 to 50 is. That’s not even counting the miss rate.

It would be nice if defense did some sort of flat damage reduction in addition to the percentage based reduction. We’re currently dealing with numbers too small for defense to be really worth it (ignoring things I don’t understand well such as hit %).

but when you consider cam whores overall potential, they are definitely 3 times better off than trolls. and what about flippin EMO’s?Log in to see images!

Escher Posted:

That’s not even close to true, though. The Camwhore best attack is 60-65, but has a two-turn refresh rate; second best is 30-35; third best is 23-26. Over three attacks that’s 113 – 126.

A troll’s best attack is 35-40, but has a 1 refresh. Add in a second attack at 20-25, and a troll does 75 – 105 in that three turn period. That isn’t as strong, but it’s certainly not 1/3rd of the Camwhore strength.

Yeah – I did that part in my head, and apparently was tired.

To get a defense of 25, you kinda have to ignore some other stats. I’m not saything that getting your defense that high is a good idea, I just wanted to do the math with it about as high as you might be able to reasonably get it.

I forgot about fap. The math I did quickly in my head bumumed an offense of something like 6 for the trolls, and an effective offense after pump me up of like 16 for camwhores.

Using the 120 vs 90 you gave above, that means 258 vs 125. Add in fap and the troll is 145. Ophilias makes it slighly worse for the trolls.

So maybe 1/2 the damage, but yeah – not 1/3.

I have an offense of 9, 12 with Fap. So make that 166.5 for trolls.

So that’s 64.5%, or roughly 2/3, of a camwhore’s damage.

average mario Posted:

Yeah – but I doubt your defense is 25.

Clearly, if you put all your upgrade points into offense, you can have more powerful attacks.

I actually initially typed that out w/ a defense of 20, but switched it to 25. The point I was trying to make was that defense sucks. I wanted to show that even if you go all out with your defense in the clbum that has the best initial defense and defense gear and fight a forum where your defense would matter the most, the camwhores can still take less damage by just healing occasionally.

I think the point that I ended up making was that Pump Me Up is just way too damn good.

I have 17 defense (with no glbumes). If you go all-out defense in the clbum that has the best defense, then it’s your fault for choosing an awful build. An emo with all their points in defense and ego won’t be able to kill things easily either.

average mario Posted:

Oh – I agree. You shouldn’t create a build like that. That was kinda my point. Defense just isn’t as good or helpful as it should be.

I’d rather see defense made better so it is worth it to have more as a troll, than to see the stock answer for all three clbumes be “get more offense”. Future higher level forums that hit for more damage might be all that’s necessary to make that happen – dunno.

If we had a forum right now that hit for 60 damage base and took 200 pwnage/thread, I doubt you’d see anyone but trolls trying to spend much time there.

Oh, I’m sorry, I misunderstood. Defense right now definitely does not scale well.

Tarman Posted:

Oh, I’m sorry, I misunderstood. Defense right now definitely does not scale well.

Going by the guesstimates in the Wiki, Defense scale is based on the item with the highest defense possible, which would be the Defaced Mona Lisa for 200k flezz (4 points in Frugality).

1 point base def, 5 points starter, 6 points from Upgrades, 40 through DML, around 52 points of Defense, meaning 52% damage-reduction and 78% evasion (should perhaps be capped at 75%, is there any troll here who’s got the fetish without cheating?).

So yes, scaling is very, very slow.