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Drakodan Posted: Brain transplants? Not that I’ve heard of… quite aside from immune rejection, the problem of connecting the brain stem to a foreign spinal cord in such a way that it actually had sensible control over a new body… that is a little beyond current science insofar as I’m aware of it. Maybe eventually we’ll standardise the brain/spine connection onto USB 5.0 and be able to hot-swap brains and bodies (or plug ourselves into immersive virtual worlds, Matrix style) but not yet…
Drakodan Posted: The unique pattern of neuronal connections and chemical influences contained in the brain. At birth there’s a certain level of predetermined templating, to define where the various regions of the brain go (don’t want the optic nerve at the back, that kind of thing) but considering the billions of neurons available, there’s more possible ways of wiring a person up than … well I don’t know the number, but it’s on the order of a metric ****-tonne. Far more than enough for 7 billion unique human minds. It’s not so much the individual neurons, as the patterns they instantiate – you can lose some of the individual cells and the patterns survive, but lose too many (to oxygen starvation, brain damage, anything that kills cells or disrupts their connections to one another) and the pattern is destroyed. Maybe that kills you, maybe it just impairs some part of your cognitive function, maybe you just lose a couple of memories… there’s constant rewiring in progress, so losing a pattern here or there is only to be expected, but you don’t want the important ones being lost.
Duncecap Posted: You do want to be careful with that analogy – take the “bare metal” of a brain with no connections or arrangement and you don’t have a working brain at all. By the time you’ve got it connected up enough to be functioning there could well be some fledgling elements of personality in there. That, and in a normal brain the parts that make you ‘you’ aren’t distinct from the ‘hardware’ – you couldn’t take the same brain and use it to run a different ‘program’. Your personality, your consciousness, all those things that define a person, are present in the very solidly physical state of the brain, not some abstract ‘internal state’ that could be separated from the neurons.
There may seem to be a ghost in the machine, but it’s a ghost made out of machinery.
SoronTheBeast Posted:
I don’t know whether I think this scientific soul is worth calling a soul; I take the word as strongly implying a separate entity from the body, one that’s generally believed to survive the death of the body. The scientific equivalent is more like a convenient shorthand for the particular state of a brain and body (the body affecting the brain via hormones and chemical signals and the like), the combination of which make a unique person. I agree in the broad strokes with what you’re saying – a personality is in the chemicals and impulses, not a magical non-physical spirit, but calling the chemicals and impulses a soul seems to me to carry too many excess connotations.
SoronTheBeast Posted:
I’d still consider it short of the definition of soul, but we may be working to different definitions; I consider the ‘survives death’ part to be the main characteristic of a soul. I don’t believe such a thing exists, so I don’t think there is a ‘scientific soul’. Granted though, there are physical patterns of chemicals and neurons that keep a body alive and instantiate a personality. If you want to call it a soul then carry on…
[and then I see that in your later post you’ve said much the same as I just did – mixing definitions is a Bad Idea™. As for world views, you may be able to tell I’d count myself a materialist. There are some very interesting ‘high level’ properties to matter, but nothing that isn’t founded on physical stuff. By high level, I mean that thoughts and memories are high level features of brain cells in the same way as “wetness” is a high level feature of water molecules – you can’t satisfactorily describe what “wet” means in terms of water molecules, even though there’s nothing causing the wetness except for those same molecules, just as you can’t really describe a thought in terms of brain cells, even though there’s nothing but brain cells involved in thought.
I sometimes tend towards materialistic functionalism; that thinking can be seen as a function of the brain in the same way as digestion is a function of the stomach, but functionalism as a theory doesn’t really say a great deal. It’s hard to find a part of it to disagree with, but that’s largely because it’s an ‘anything goes’ kind of theory. man-man edited this message on 02/09/2010 12:29PM |
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Posted On: 02/09/2010 12:28PM | View man-man's Profile | # |