BirdofPrey Posted:

i think we’re running into conflicts here because you’re fakeposting and i’m not. also, ben stein is a jew (STEIN) and he should know better than to spout high-profile BS that just reinforces negative stereotypes about religious people.

Sarah Silverman is also a jew, but there should be a serious discussion about this…

ALSO **** YEAH SERIOUS DEBATE! =D

nanafabulous personjesus Posted:

oh lol

so you think secular humanism is a morally bankrupt philosophy then?

not morally bankrupt, morally they’re fine by me, but it certainly doesn’t work very well as a full-fledged philosophy.

BirdofPrey Posted:

not morally bankrupt, morally they’re fine by me, but it certainly doesn’t work very well as a full-fledged philosophy.

How so?

Oh, and how can you say believing in atheism is an attempt to absolve all moral responsibility when you also are aware of secular humanism, a philosophy that stresses the importance of living a good life?

Wikipedia Posted:

# Fulfillment, growth, creativity – A primary concern with fulfillment, growth, and creativity for both the individual and humankind in general.

# This life – A concern for this life and a commitment to making it meaningful through better understanding of ourselves, our history, our intellectual and artistic achievements, and the outlooks of those who differ from us.

# Ethics – A search for viable individual, social and political principles of ethical conduct, judging them on their ability to enhance human well-being and individual responsibility.

# Building a better world – A conviction that with reason, an open exchange of ideas, good will, and tolerance, progress can be made in building a better world for ourselves and our children.

nanafabulous personjesus Posted:

While I’m waiting for BoP to reply I’ll make a few points.

First, what prompted this and if it is genuine then why did you post it in “General Roleplaying”?

Second, you say atheists subscribe to a philosophy that renders life accidental and meaningless as the one can’t believe one and not the other. Believing life is accidental does not mean you also believe it is meaningless. Just because you don’t follow any religion does mean you think life is meaningless. What’s so bad about living this the best way you can instead of living for an afterlife that may not exist?

yeah that line was intentionally a little over the top (you see what i mean about not completely serious), i do think there’s perhaps some truth to it. Sure while you’re alive right now you can love and laugh and all that good ****, but in the long term if your consciousness simply winks out when you die as if it never was, doesn’t that by nature render it rather meaningless? When enough time pbumes there won’t even be a memory of who you were, and since there won’t be anything of you to remember it for yourself, what does it matter in the end?

also, a healthy religious lifestyle isn’t just about living for the afterlife as you said, and is mainly about what you do in this world. I can’t speak for christianity, since i’m a jew myself, but in judaism there is really very little talk of any afterlife, the great majority of it is dedicated to the here and now.

[quote]BirdofPrey Posted:

yeah that line was intentionally a little over the top (you see what i mean about not completely serious), i do think there’s perhaps some truth to it. Sure while you’re alive right now you can love and laugh and all that good ****, but in the long term if your consciousness simply winks out when you die as if it never was, doesn’t that by nature render it rather meaningless? When enough time pbumes there won’t even be a memory of who you were, and since there won’t be anything of you to remember it for yourself, what does it matter in the end?[/quote]

I don’t know, that just doesn’t bother me. I mean, you’re not there for it, so you can’t necessarily be bothered by it.

I mean, I’d like it if there was something after, but I just don’t feel it. Reincarnation sounds pretty cool, but no religion really offers anything to me besides the promise of an afterlife. All that other stuff it says I can get somewhere else.

But seriously, reincarnation would be awesome.

[quote]also, a healthy religious lifestyle isn’t just about living for the afterlife as you said, and is mainly about what you do in this world. I can’t speak for christianity, since i’m a jew myself, but in judaism there is really very little talk of any afterlife, the great majority of it is dedicated to the here and now.[/quote]

That’s why I like Judaism more than Christianity. Christianity feels more like fear mongering with the importance it places on the afterlife.

I just don’t like that people do good things because their religion tells them too. As if it’s not good enough to just do it just because.

I mean, granted, once you break it down there’s no such thing as a selfless act, but it still bugs me when the religious issue comes up and the other side uses the moral card as if without religion there wouldn’t be morals.[/quote]

wtf why arent my quotes working

BirdofPrey Posted:

that’s cool by me. you’re cool by me Log in to see images!

You’re cool too, you’re the coolest dude I know.

And forgive me if I come off sounding like a male reproductive organ in any of this. I just really like arguing with people. Log in to see images!

yeah by ‘self-worship’ i didn’t mean yourself, i meant mankind in general. And at our best, mankind is really really great, for sure, with astonishing creativity and accomplishments, but it doesn’t take very much for us to turn to complete **** as history has shown again and again. I think that’s where religious guidelines come in handy (except for when they’re abused, i.e. the christian church throughout its entire history),

and that’s also the difference between ‘religious morals’ and ‘secular morals’. If there was no religion there would certainly be morals, but they would be more of a reflection of current social norms and very subject to change, while religious morals are more set in stone and can keep **** straight for generations. I am of course leaving out those religious morals whose ‘set-in-stoneness’ hurts rather than helps because they’re so very special and borderline evil Log in to see images!

I’m sorry guys, but as an atheist[*] who’s been down all of the avenues mentioned so far to achieve a state of self-consistence, I’m quite apalled by the sheer volume of complete crap in this thread.

[*] strictly speaking I’m an agnostic.