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Poll Do you believe in Evolution?

man-man

Avatar: 156485 2010-01-24 16:36:14 -0500
24

[Harem and Sushi Bar]

Level 69 Hacker

Selfish fine upstanding member of society

Steady application of microevolution results in, on the higher scale, the potential for spurts and stops in macroevolution. They might be useful concepts to discern between, might not. But they’re both the same mechanism – evolution. Just acting on different scales. Growth vs pubescent growth, you could tell apart by hormonal changes, whereas you wouldn’t be able to examine a species and say whether they’re busily macroevolving or microevolving; just that they’re evolving (and they will be, all the time, so long as they’re reproducing, have some variation and there are selective pressures present).

Mutation occurs at a more or less constant rate, but most of them will occur in non-coding DNA (some of which will have regulatory functions or uses we don’t know about, but much of which is truly junk) Within coding DNA many mutations will be masked by the redundancy of the codon to amino acid translation. Amino acid changes may not affect the structure of the protein protein. A protein can change without affecting its function, and a functional protein can sometimes be changed without adaptive consequences.

So that’s a lot of neutral mutations that won’t do a lot except generate a little bit of diversity in the genome. Then we get the ones that do something; some are deleterious and lost, some are advantageous in some way. Each within that advantageous set will have differing degrees of actual effect on the organism and hence different degrees of ‘novelty’ and adaptive value. Then there’s environmental factors – the degree of pressure on an organism won’t affect how often beneficial mutations occur but it’ll affect how quickly they spread.

So a constant tick rate of mutations will give you a relatively steady stream of minor changes, which might over long enough time frames effect substantial change in a species or cause speciation. Then every so not so often you get a mutation that’s something we later see to be big and noticeable and important, that offers sufficient benefit to sweep through a population and be the next “step forward”.

Steady microevolution, bursty macroevolution. Constant rate of mutation.

Haha, this is hilarious. Log in to see images! I really like how you guys put so much effort into proving your views on evolution. Actually, only in America people even take somebody seriously who believes that there is no proof for Darwin-like evolution – here in Europe, we usually just laugh at those guys and that’s about it, noone even bothers to convince them. So yeah, I find the seriousness of this debate pretty funny.

But seriously, when it comes to science, you Americans seem to be about 10-15 years behind when it comes to public acknowledgement… yes, among other things thanks to guys like MC Banhammer. Congratz.

BlooD FalCoN edited this message on 06/04/2010 11:08PM

Fortunato

Avatar: 72902 2010-02-03 18:45:17 -0500
32

[Grey Goose Mafiosi]

Level 51 Troll

ZOMBIE CANNONBALL OF GORE

y’know what I miss? America’s benevolent scientific dominance.

SIG-ENABLING-
-MOCK-CONGLER

Avatar: 25677 Tue Mar 31 17:59:16 -0400 2009

Level 35 Emo Kid

purchace championchips

STUPID ****ERS THINK GOD MADE THIS ****

LOL AT RELIGIOUS MORONS

I GUESS YOUR GOD CONDONES BABY KILLING

THAT MEANS YOU CONDONE BABY KILLING

Mod Edit: All caps in CD + Trolling = see ya later

SIG-ENABLING-MOCK-CONGLER was banned for this post by Sergeant Cid

mterek

Avatar: 192622 2009-09-24 16:39:01 -0400
18

[mahjong]

Level 69 Re-Re

$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$

Fortunato Posted:

y’know what I miss? America’s benevolent scientific dominance.

Blame televangelists.

OrsonScottCa-
rd

Avatar: 104768 2010-03-04 02:36:45 -0500
17

[Forumwarz Speakeasy]

Level 69 Hacker

P - E - D - O - S - E - X - U - A - L - !

mterek Posted:

Blame televangelists.

I say blame the fact that the intelligent aren’t breeding and the unintelligent are reproducing like rabbits, and then add an educational system that teaches to the lowest common denominator. We literally train scientific curiosity out of our children.

Dunatis

Avatar: 78885 2011-11-01 01:20:41 -0400
100

[Cabal Gamez]

Level 69 Hacker

Richard Whittington

BlooD FalCoN Posted:

Haha, this is hilarious. Log in to see images!

I met my first Creationist when having a discussion with some guys in high school about weird things people believe and I mentioned how there were people who thought that “the world was made 6000 years ago in 7 days”. Someone looked at me and with the most serious look on his face said “It was”. I turned around, shut up and was done for the day…

At this point in my life I cannot wrap my head around the concept of someone with a halfway decent education believing this and the supposed numbers of those who do in the States scares the ever-loving **** out of me.

Not believing that we evolved from inorganic materials in a long drawn out sequence that has been reproduced step by step in labs (individually, not all together and according to my college education) ok, no biggie. Saying God created life to evolve and gave us science to examine his creation? Sounds reasonable enough. But to believe in the literal meaning of the bible scares me ****less as it represents to me an utter denial of objective reality that cannot lead to any good.

OrsonScottCa-
rd

Avatar: 104768 2010-03-04 02:36:45 -0500
17

[Forumwarz Speakeasy]

Level 69 Hacker

P - E - D - O - S - E - X - U - A - L - !

Dunatis Posted:

I met my first Creationist when having a discussion with some guys in high school about weird things people believe and I mentioned how there were people who thought that “the world was made 6000 years ago in 7 days”. Someone looked at me and with the most serious look on his face said “It was”. I turned around, shut up and was done for the day…

At this point in my life I cannot wrap my head around the concept of someone with a halfway decent education believing this and the supposed numbers of those who do in the States scares the ever-loving **** out of me.

Not believing that we evolved from inorganic materials in a long drawn out sequence that has been reproduced step by step in labs (individually, not all together and according to my college education) ok, no biggie. Saying God created life to evolve and gave us science to examine his creation? Sounds reasonable enough. But to believe in the literal meaning of the bible scares me ****less as it represents to me an utter denial of objective reality that cannot lead to any good.

I’m jealous of anyone who had to “meet their first Creationist” – my mother is a televangelist-loving biblical literalist loony. I love her to death, but I can’t have any sort of serious conversation with her. Log in to see images!

man-man

Avatar: 156485 2010-01-24 16:36:14 -0500
24

[Harem and Sushi Bar]

Level 69 Hacker

Selfish fine upstanding member of society

Wherever I go I seem to find myself one creationist to have arguments with; in secondary there was Rosie, in sixth form Michael and now at uni there’s Mark. Only ever one at a time though…

I find it very strange that otherwise rational-seeming people are swayed to believing in superstition and magic, but I guess it’s a particularly potent meme or something.

Edit: I say “swayed”... I suppose in a lot of cases it’s that they’ve not swayed away from it. Makes a difference.

man-man edited this message on 06/05/2010 4:43PM

Bacchus

Avatar: 224220 2013-12-30 13:01:13 -0500
14

[This klans name is-
precisely fifty c-
haracters long
]

Level 69 Troll

I AM ALSO A STUPID ****WAD

BlooD FalCoN Posted:

Haha, this is hilarious. Log in to see images! I really like how you guys put so much effort into proving your views on evolution. Actually, only in America people even take somebody seriously who believes that there is no proof for Darwin-like evolution – here in Europe, we usually just laugh at those guys and that’s about it, noone even bothers to convince them. So yeah, I find the seriousness of this debate pretty funny.

But seriously, when it comes to science, you Americans seem to be about 10-15 years behind when it comes to public acknowledgement… yes, among other things thanks to guys like MC Banhammer. Congratz.

lol

You’re just jealous. In America our staunch creationists carry silly signs and chant somewhat bemusing sayings. In Europe they blow things up. Log in to see images!

Not sure what you could mean by “public acknowledgement sic,” we have a lot of people who think a lot of things. Seem to keep our science up to date enough to invent the car, airplane, birth control pill, computer, internet (thank you Al Gore) as well as the operating system and web browser you’re using at this moment (educated guess). Who is it that’s supposed to be acknowledging science other than those who use it?

man-man

Avatar: 156485 2010-01-24 16:36:14 -0500
24

[Harem and Sushi Bar]

Level 69 Hacker

Selfish fine upstanding member of society

Poll the population of the US, and you get a minority of people saying they think evolution is real. A hefty percentage (though not an outright majority) believe that life, and the Earth, was created in its present form a relatively short time ago. The remainder is the “dunno” group.

That’s a very rare thing among wealthy/industrialised countries. Your public acceptance of the scientific facts ranks near the bottom of the table among western nations (Turkey is worse, but that’s about all)

man-man edited this message on 06/05/2010 7:07PM

Sergeant Cid

MODERATOR
Avatar: 167814 2011-07-31 00:46:27 -0400

[The Airship]

Level 35 Re-Re

Scientifically Proven Terrible fabulous person..... Evidence shows mbumive build up of semen deposit in bum.

man-man Posted:

Poll the population of the US, and you get a minority of people saying they think evolution is real. A hefty percentage (though not an outright majority) believe that life, and the Earth, was created in its present form a relatively short time ago. The remainder is the “dunno” group.

That’s a very rare thing among wealthy/industrialised countries. Your public acceptance of the scientific facts ranks near the bottom of the table among western nations (Turkey is worse, but that’s about all)

Actually, the 2004 Gallup poll showed that 51% of Americans believe in Evolution, whether it be Naturalistic or Theistic.

man-man

Avatar: 156485 2010-01-24 16:36:14 -0500
24

[Harem and Sushi Bar]

Level 69 Hacker

Selfish fine upstanding member of society

Sergeant Cid Posted:

Actually, the 2004 Gallup poll showed that 51% of Americans believe in Evolution, whether it be Naturalistic or Theistic.

Ok, my facts are out of date. That’s encouraging… although theistic evolution is really only a small step in the right direction (and 51% still leaves room for a lot of full on deniers)

Given that the majority of religious people will fall into the middle of the bell curve and be fairly moderate believers, I guess that’s what you’d expect; acceptance of the idea of species changing (because otherwise you’re a loony young-earther) but sticking some god in there where it’s not needed (because otherwise you’re one of those baby-eating atheists)

That said, a moderate believer in America is still kind of a wack job when stood next to a moderate believer from Europe.

man-man edited this message on 06/05/2010 8:09PM

mterek

Avatar: 192622 2009-09-24 16:39:01 -0400
18

[mahjong]

Level 69 Re-Re

$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$

Plus, that 51% is only representative of people willing to give an opinion and/or people capable of giving an opinion (people with phones). It’s entirely possible that it’s a skewed sample of the educated population, rather than total population. So even a slightly more pessimistic (-2%) estimate would lead us to conclude most Americans don’t believe in evolution.

Bacchus

Avatar: 224220 2013-12-30 13:01:13 -0500
14

[This klans name is-
precisely fifty c-
haracters long
]

Level 69 Troll

I AM ALSO A STUPID ****WAD

By 2004 the majority of people without land line telephones (those who would be part of a telephone survey) are the young employed people using cell phones only (you can get a land line subsidized extremely cheap in any state). Which, seems to me, would be more likely to include an atheistic bias. But now we’re just guessing at what the poll might say if others were asked, so a little silly and not provable by either of us.

I can’t deny that a larger percentage of US citizens is under educated than in other industrialized nations, what I wanted to point out was the phrase “you Americans seem to be about 10-15 years behind…” is a meaningless generalization. Who is it in other nations that is officially acknowledging scientific theory? The information is available, even taught to every child, we do have some real dumbbumes though. lol

man-man

Avatar: 156485 2010-01-24 16:36:14 -0500
24

[Harem and Sushi Bar]

Level 69 Hacker

Selfish fine upstanding member of society

MC Banhammer Posted:

man-man those “rationalists”

Yknow… I let this one by at the time, but I could object to being described as a rationalist. Whilst it implies using reason to arrive at truth, it actually means using “pure reason” (i.e. just thinking about it) over and above other means of finding things out. I’d really consider myself more an empiricist – you can’t find out jack just by sitting and thinking, you have to go on the evidence.

OverclockedJ-
esus

Avatar: 16071 2010-02-06 15:55:38 -0500
17

Level 69 Troll

“Human Yeast Infection”

Depends on the subject, man man. With the a priori, you can just sit and think about it.

Celerysteve

Avatar: 61989 2011-12-28 11:21:37 -0500
24

[Temple of the Anth-
ropomorphic Majesty
]

Level 35 Troll

Right from the moment when I saw Saw, I laughed.

MOD EDIT: Removed unrelated image.

Celerysteve was banned for this post by Nicco

CrinkzPipe

Avatar: 35643 2011-12-11 17:25:30 -0500
8

[Harem and Sushi Bar]

Level 61 Emo Kid

Hi, I'm an adult whos into anime. ALSO male reproductive organS!

i feel this might be relevant to this thread.

ERECTILE_DEA-
TH

Avatar: 150883 2010-01-24 16:20:22 -0500
37

[SUPER SECRET MOON -
BASE PLANNING COMM-
ITTEE
]

Level 69 Troll

you still go on here you old **** just die already

I’m not reading this thread because I’m sure it’s full of leftist bull**** propaganda. But am I really supposed to believe that humans just came about on this planet by chance? That life simply “evolved” here randomly?

Thanks, but no thanks. I’ll take my God and be over here in the corner when you folks come to your senses.

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