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News The Patriot Act

TZX

Avatar: Code (Green)
3

[WeChall is a ****ty klan]

Level 29 Hacker

“1337”

dobnits Posted:

HA!

That said, I still support the darn thing.

Id rather be AWARE that my every move is probably being watched by the government than not being aware of a possible terror attack. Most people are unaware of how many lives this act has saved, because if those were revealed to the sheep American public, they would get nervous and stuff.

How many 9/11s would that number be? ‘cos compared to other ways of saving PATRIOTIC AMERICAN LIVEZ! the number needs to be really high to justify the violations. If people compared terrorism to other sources of RL b& instead of throwing a hysteric fit they would see how small the problem really is and rethink throwing away their liberties and foreigners’ rights to not be tortured.

AIDS woman's genitals

Avatar: 184403 2009-09-17 04:10:15 -0400
25

Level 69 Troll

show me your zucchini and I'll show you my cugreat timesber :zak:

TZX Posted:

How many 9/11s would that number be? ‘cos compared to other ways of saving PATRIOTIC AMERICAN LIVEZ! the number needs to be really high to justify the violations. If people compared terrorism to other sources of RL b& instead of throwing a hysteric fit they would see how small the problem really is and rethink throwing away their liberties and foreigners’ rights to not be tortured.

911 = High treason

How do bring to account what went on there?

TZX

Avatar: Code (Green)
3

[WeChall is a ****ty klan]

Level 29 Hacker

“1337”

AIDS woman's genitals Posted:

911 = High treason

How do bring to account what went on there?

Fail.

Hanlon’s razor: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity. Grey’s Law: Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice.

Perfect example.

AIDS woman's genitals

Avatar: 184403 2009-09-17 04:10:15 -0400
25

Level 69 Troll

show me your zucchini and I'll show you my cugreat timesber :zak:

TZX Posted:

Fail.

And this is relevant why?

TZX

Avatar: Code (Green)
3

[WeChall is a ****ty klan]

Level 29 Hacker

“1337”

AIDS woman's genitals Posted:

And this is relevant why?

Because you claimed that 9/11 was high treason which it would be it could were a conspiracy or you considered stupidity and honest mistakes acts of treason. I used a well-known law to demonstrate why one has little reason to suspect a conspiracy. If you want I can also provide the long chain of reasoning and the evidence and lack of it which support this simpler observation. In addition, I used 9/11 as a measurement of terrorist acts which failed to materialize according to dobnits because of civil liberties violations, in comparison to other causes of death which would yield way more significant results with less expense and infringement.

AIDS woman's genitals

Avatar: 184403 2009-09-17 04:10:15 -0400
25

Level 69 Troll

show me your zucchini and I'll show you my cugreat timesber :zak:

TZX Posted:

Because you claimed that 9/11 was high treason which it would be it could were a conspiracy or you considered stupidity and honest mistakes acts of treason. I used a well-known law to demonstrate why one has little reason to suspect a conspiracy. If you want I can also provide the long chain of reasoning and the evidence and lack of it which support this simpler observation. In addition, I used 9/11 as a measurement of terrorist acts which failed to materialize according to dobnits because of civil liberties violations, in comparison to other causes of death which would yield way more significant results with less expense and infringement.

Stop banding about this word “conspiracy” There is no “conspiracy” about 911! You either believe what your told like a good little sheep,or you look thought the spoon fed media sponsored garbage to the facts at hand. I can see which side of the fence you fall on. Good day to you.

TZX

Avatar: Code (Green)
3

[WeChall is a ****ty klan]

Level 29 Hacker

“1337”

AIDS woman's genitals Posted:

Stop banding about this word “conspiracy” There is no “conspiracy” about 911! You either believe what your told like a good little sheep,or you look thought the spoon fed media sponsored garbage to the facts at hand. I can see which side of the fence you fall on. Good day to you.

wat.

Exactly are you trying to say?

Skyman747

Avatar: 115546 2011-07-31 00:23:14 -0400
17

[Harem and Sushi Bar]

Level 69 Hacker

DIRTY ****ING fine upstanding member of society woman's genitals

Wait, are you guys arguing over whether 9/11 was just a big conspiracy so the government had an excuse to pbum The Patriot Act?

Log in to see images!

TZX

Avatar: Code (Green)
3

[WeChall is a ****ty klan]

Level 29 Hacker

“1337”

Skyman747 Posted:

Wait, are you guys arguing over whether 9/11 was just a big conspiracy so the government had an excuse to pbum The Patriot Act?

Log in to see images!

No, I’m arguing that 9/11 wasn’t a conspiracy and trying to find out what AIDS woman's genitals is trying to argue. The relevance to The Patriot Act is that TPA is overreaction with 99% confidence. Approximately 4 times as many people are killed by violent crime every year yet there are no demands that the government do something that radical. If infant mortality rates were reduced to the levels of the Nordic or prosperous East Asian countries 2-3 times as many lives would be saved each year. I believe that could be achieved with a fraction of the resources currently used to maintain the most powerful military in the world. In order for the threat of terrorism to justify the resource allocations several attacks the size of 9/11 would have to be prevented every year and the only way it could reasonably be is preventing nuclear attacks.

Sneaky27

Avatar: 70951 2010-02-06 21:28:05 -0500
35

Level 69 Troll

“Human Yeast Infection”

Wait, so you’re placing a monetary value to human life?

TZX

Avatar: Code (Green)
3

[WeChall is a ****ty klan]

Level 29 Hacker

“1337”

Sneaky27 Posted:

Wait, so you’re placing a monetary value to human life?

Partially yes, to demonstrate that more lives could be saved with less money. Ultimately you have to place some kind of limit or we would all be paying 80% taxes so that as many deaths could be prevented as possible. The question is prioritizing and except for nuclear terrorism the current resource use is wasteful compared to the alternatives.

I’m giving some numbers here, pulled out of my bum Wikipedia and comparisons on how many lives could be saved: (the numbers bumume terrorist attacks reduce 50 years from the victims’ life expectancy)

IAO: $1 750 000 000

The Information Awareness Office is relevant to the Patriot Act since it was established to develop surveillance.

By using a figure of $20 000 for 1 life-year (medical treatments) the IAO would need to have prevented 1750 deaths from terrorism to be cost-effective.

By a figure of $5000 (fire detection and similar measures) the number is 7000.

In developing countries this could have saved at least 50 000 – 200 000 lives with a conservative estimate.*

Iraq War: $1 900 000 000 000

That money could have saved 1 900 000 lives with medical treatments but if we are reasonable and bumume that adopting the successful late-war strategies early on could have saved one quarter of the money the number of saved lives drops to 475 000: about the same as died in Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Dresden and London bombings in WW2 and approximately the number

of deaths one could expect from one to a few improvised nuclear attacks.

This money could also have saved at least 50 000 000 lives in developing countries even bumuming extremely diminishing returns; likely way, way more.

Every time you allocate money to something you are making a choice and even if we bumume that the US government has only a responsibility to protect the lives of its own citizens it did a pretty bad job prioritizing. No offense, but if people stopped throwing a hissy fit at terrorist attacks and looked at the numbers objectively government policy would be pretty different.

Also, civil rights.

* The cost of saving lives in developing countries is estimated as much higher than aid agencies report since the calculations bumume that lives must also be significantly improved; saving a child from diarrhea to suffer near starvation is not considered saving a life here, instead one has to gain real opportunity and a moderately good standard of living.

TZX edited this message on 06/06/2010 9:51AM

Finny

Avatar: 57559 2011-07-31 00:11:12 -0400
7

[Harem and Sushi Bar]

Level 69 Troll

BUMPS EVERYWHERE

holy **** I made a good thread

Catloaf

Avatar: 183147 2010-04-18 05:32:51 -0400

[And The Banned Pla-
yed On
]

Level 4 Camwhore

“Like a Virgin”

xcuse me

Sneaky27

Avatar: 70951 2010-02-06 21:28:05 -0500
35

Level 69 Troll

“Human Yeast Infection”

I Posted:

Wait, so you’re placing a monetary value to human life?

TZX Posted:

yes

Right on.

TZX

Avatar: Code (Green)
3

[WeChall is a ****ty klan]

Level 29 Hacker

“1337”

Could you explain why what I did was so bad? I bumume that you don’t mean to simply quote mine but AFAIK I demonstrated how more lives could be saved by using the money differently. If anything, people who refuse to use the most efficient methods of saving lives are acting in a bizarre way by setting the monetary value of a saved life lower when talking about some methods but higher when talking about others, especially when the methods they choose to use also violate human rights and civil liberties.

Catloaf

Avatar: 183147 2010-04-18 05:32:51 -0400

[And The Banned Pla-
yed On
]

Level 4 Camwhore

“Like a Virgin”

xcuseeee me!!!!!

meeeeeeeeee

Avatar: 15443 2010-04-04 18:27:25 -0400
49

[Brainfreeze]

Level 35 Troll

Sneakily vicious and filled with virtuous pit bulls.

Catloaf Posted:

xcuseeee me!!!!!

yes?

Sneaky27

Avatar: 70951 2010-02-06 21:28:05 -0500
35

Level 69 Troll

“Human Yeast Infection”

TZX Posted:

Could you explain why what I did was so bad? I bumume that you don’t mean to simply quote mine but AFAIK I demonstrated how more lives could be saved by using the money differently. If anything, people who refuse to use the most efficient methods of saving lives are acting in a bizarre way by setting the monetary value of a saved life lower when talking about some methods but higher when talking about others, especially when the methods they choose to use also violate human rights and civil liberties.

You misunderstand, I’m not bumigning moral value. I just wanted to clarify where you were coming from. Which is that a human life is worth X amount.

TZX

Avatar: Code (Green)
3

[WeChall is a ****ty klan]

Level 29 Hacker

“1337”

Sneaky27 Posted:

You misunderstand, I’m not bumigning moral value. I just wanted to clarify where you were coming from. Which is that a human life is worth X amount.

Ahem, are you sure you understood what I said? I said that saving a human life justifies X amount of expenses. The distinction is a bit subtle but important since technically a life being worth X amount would justify murder if it gained more money while the option I’ve been showing here would only justify inaction when saving one life is more expensive.

It may seem a bit harsh when applied ideologically but in real life we’d not see any problems related to that in a very long time because even saving all lives costing less than X will take an awfully long time. In case anyone wants to apply some kind of logical fallacies to my “confession”, just remember that saving every possible life would result in quite extreme and ridiculous measures. The term “acceptable risk” exists for a reason.

And to avoid derailing this thread any further, when it comes to anti-terrorism the price paid for the comparatively (see the calculations) few saved lives has a steep immaterial price as well, unlike many other, better, methods.

Sneaky27

Avatar: 70951 2010-02-06 21:28:05 -0500
35

Level 69 Troll

“Human Yeast Infection”

TZX Posted:

Ahem, are you sure you understood what I said?

I Posted:

Wait, so you’re placing a monetary value to human life?

TZX Posted:

yes

Pretty easy to understand.

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