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Politics Defective Two Party System (USA)

HunyrgLiekTe-
hWofl

Avatar: harblgar
2

[The Fondler of Bal-
lsacks
]

Level 17 Troll

“Pain in the ASCII”

Vince Russo Posted:

HAHAHA!~ That last line leads me to believe that you would support war as a means of population control.

I beg your pardon, but how You managed to come up with such conclusion escapes me.

And just for the record Lenin’s guilt practically killed him.

Sorry for beingc picky here, but I thought it was syphilis. Which, on a sidenote, leads to question what actually lies in the Lenin’s mausoleum, as it’s way to good looking for a syphilis victim.

//OK, I’ve looked it up and it seems that the syphilis is only one of theories.

Obviously it goes much further than that and the reality is a society based on Communism works under a prolific belief in their government and in their country as a whole, something America has not had since the death of Kennedy.

Hm, why exactly that time? I’m just asking for reasoning behind choosing that particular date, I don’t know history of the US that well and though it seems obvious to me that it’s no longer as it once was, I couldn’t point a single even since which thing started to screw over.

Now democracy is so flawed that scam and con artists end up living well established lives for doing absolutely nothing or by getting by on the hard work of others. Tell me HOW IS THAT FAIR?

Be careful where you’re going with that. I can imagine people who do nothing because of ther parent’s hard work. How would you respond to that? How would communism cope with succession? Also, what would make it scam-proof?

Communism re-establishes hope in a uniformed government that ACTUALLY cares about it citizens and HELPS them to achieve greater glory for their country, their family, and for themselves.

probably Reagan Posted:

The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’

I’m fine by myself, and I don’t need government’s help. When I’ll need it, I’ll ask for it. I want to have choice.

(...)Seriously. How you came up with that thought… I really don’t want to know.

Belarus, for example.

More to come.

HunyrgLiekTehWofl edited this message on 03/29/2008 4:58PM

HunyrgLiekTe-
hWofl

Avatar: harblgar
2

[The Fondler of Bal-
lsacks
]

Level 17 Troll

“Pain in the ASCII”

Well as we ALL know the American Diplomacy gets off on squeezing money from the poor and offering sub-par treatments and PHENOMENALLY high prices. HMO, PPO, Blue Cross-Blue Shield… its all bull****. Under a Communist government paid system there would be no worries about funding from the people.

To me, those are just a bunch of 3-letter acronyms. But in case you were wondering, the health care here also excells at squeezing money, and offering barely any treatment at all. Being government-run and all. And it’s doing it’s best to hinder private health care systems, which are offering more while charging moreorless the same.

Thats Stalin you’re thinking of. He was the master of propaganda and unfortunately McCarthy made people like “you” believe that is all that Communism was/is about.

Ah, luckily I have only a vague idea who McCarthy was. I base my opinions on the fact that I live in country that struggled with communism for about 50 years. So, sorry about that, but I’ve seen it. I’ve read book that are elaborate metaphors, just to bypbum censorship. I’ve seen pictures and movies which were locked for years, as they didn’t support the party’s point of view. I know of people who were hunted down and murdered after WWII, as they were opposing the Soviet with the same determination they opposed the Nazis. I’ve seen posters teching people to contempt free traders, and glorifying physical workers (this can be answer to your doctor & garbageman argument, personally I rescpect people who work hard and with pbumion, no matter what their job is, I don’t know how you want from salaries to respect).

Vince Russo

Avatar: Vince Russo's Avatar
5

Level 35 Troll

“Problem Child IV”

HunyrgLiekTehWofl Posted:

I beg your pardon, but how You managed to come up with such conclusion escapes me.

To answer a quote with a quote:

HunyrgLiekTehWofl Posted:

My advice: get off the internet. Seriously, no wonder you’re getting bitter thoughts about humanity if you’re reading flamewars. Also, the idea of degradation of society is probably as old as any society. The very fact that humans are still out there proves that it’s not that bad.

HunyrgLiekTehWofl Posted:

Sorry for beingc picky here, but I thought it was syphilis. Which, on a sidenote, leads to question what actually lies in the Lenin’s mausoleum, as it’s way to good looking for a syphilis victim.

//OK, I’ve looked it up and it seems that the syphilis is only one of theories.

Perhaps they’re are cases of people dying from “guilt”, but I did not mean it so literally. Maybe I should have said “died inside” in order to convey the amount of suffering the man went through in his last years…

Apology for the confusion.

HunyrgLiekTehWofl Posted:

Hm, why exactly that time? I’m just asking for reasoning behind choosing that particular date, I don’t know history of the US that well and though it seems obvious to me that it’s no longer as it once was, I couldn’t point a single even since which thing started to screw over.

Well first there really ISNT a point where Americans can say “THIS IS WHEN WE STOPPED BELIEVING THE GOVERNMENT IS TRYING TO HELP US”. I personally say that point, because it was the last time that the people universally believed that a government official (in this case the president) was there for them. After Kennedy who did we get… Nixon>? LOL. Anyways…

HunyrgLiekTehWofl Posted:

Be careful where you’re going with that. I can imagine people who do nothing because of ther parent’s hard work. How would you respond to that? How would communism cope with succession?

You do realize that Lenin obliterated the Czar and all of his family and descendants right? Once again, FAR TOO RADICAL for my tastes but I think over time their economic power should be fazed out. Perhaps a generation or two.

HunyrgLiekTehWofl Posted:

probably Reagan Posted:

The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: ‘I’m from the AMERICAN government and I’m here to help.

There… I fixed that for you. Its sad to think that people are so terrified of their “elected” leaders.

More to follow…Log in to see images!

EDIT: Where are you from again?

Vince Russo edited this message on 03/29/2008 4:59PM

narth

Avatar: Dust Mite
1

Level 10 Troll

Unfunny fabulous person

PIMPTASTIC-FROTH Posted:

@Hungry – Yes, communism’s flaws might be to difficult for any government to overcome…but as I’ve said before, many countries have borrowed from socialist and Marxist theory. Even the most conservative American is very, VERY liberal (American conservatism is more-or-less ‘clbumical’ liberalism), and just because a country like France isn’t communist, doesn’t mean they can’t institute universal health care, or other socialist concepts.

Not true really. If I remember correctly you’re thinking of “libertarianism” which is total freedom, both economically and socially. Liberalism has always been the school of thought that a body known as “government” needs to intervene to provide the best economic outcome. America is actually pretty conservative and it’s “liberals” are pretty much moderate conservatives, while it’s “libertarians” mostly just use the word because it’s cool, I’ve met liberal libertarians, and hardline conservative ones Log in to see images! (no, seriously, claims to be libertarian) but very few genuine ones. Libertarianism is only one step from “pure” anarchism in the clbumical sense.

America still falls in the whole “mixed” economy system which is a system everyone from libertarians who think a few services are required to maintain property rights to more archetypal socialists who beleive that everyone should have certain things available to them (some might add If they’re trying to work, but lets not go into subsets and HERETICS) but that capitalism drives better productivity.

A lot of America, and my native england, which 3rd party’s slightly stronger presence aside is very simular, suffers from the fact that the two main parties are moderate conservatives and hardline conservatives. There is no liberal party with weight, and hence no balance. When the government pushes something through, the parties infight and vote against themselves, reliant on the opposition to push it… Or that’s how it works here. That is to say, that most of our choice is an illusion.

Vince Russo

Avatar: Vince Russo's Avatar
5

Level 35 Troll

“Problem Child IV”

HunyrgLiekTehWofl please finish the debate. I have to go for a few hours (nephew’s birthday) but I would be ENTHRALLED to respond to you when I come back.

Log in to see images!

HunyrgLiekTe-
hWofl

Avatar: harblgar
2

[The Fondler of Bal-
lsacks
]

Level 17 Troll

“Pain in the ASCII”

Well, I’ll try to paraphrase myself: the impression of the next generation being less civilised that the current one is present at every point in history. Myself, I believe there is no regress, and the impression comes from getting more socially aware as people get mature, and finding the world to be “going too fast” when they become elderly. If every generation was actually significantly worse, we would annihilate ourselves centuries ago. I still don’t see how would that translate to, “war as a mean of population control”.

And about the guilt thing, I was being a bit ironic, sorry. Seriously, I know what “dying from guilt” means Log in to see images!

And sorry for that, yep, I arranged my post so that you wouldn’t be sure until the latter part if I’m from the US or not. I’m from Poland.

No problem, I was actually plannig to ask you the same anyway. Have fun at the party.

HunyrgLiekTehWofl edited this message on 03/29/2008 5:13PM

nanalatinoje-
sus gets you-
JUSTICE IN -
YOUR FORUMS

Avatar: nanalatinojesus gets you JUSTICE IN YOUR FORUMS's
4

[Full of SbumSS]

Level 26 Troll

I SHOULD POST MORE BUT I DON'T BECAUSE YOU'RE ALL REALLY LAME

mary misanthrope Posted:

Hehe, is that a compliment, or a backhanded compliment?

I Log in to see images!

Oh, it was a compliment. I understand now how it could be taken as some sort of insult though.

Vince Russo Posted:

not everyones lives are motivated by greed.

Log in to see images!

Everyone’s motivated by their own selfish reasons. Money or not.

mary misanth-
rope

Avatar: mary misanthrope's Avatar
14

Level 35 Emo Kid

Second Best mammary glands on Forumwarz

HunyrgLiekTehWofl Posted:

Well, I’ll try to paraphrase myself: the impression of the next generation being less civilised that the current one is present at every point in history. Myself, I believe there is no regress, and the impression comes from getting more socially aware as people get mature, and finding the world to be “going too fast” when they become elderly. If every generation was actually significantly worse, we would annihilate ourselves centuries ago. I still don’t see how would that translate to, “war as a mean of population control”.

And about the guilt thing, I was being a bit ironic, sorry. Seriously, I know what “dying from guilt” means Log in to see images!

And sorry for that, yep, I arranged my post so that you wouldn’t be sure until the latter part if I’m from the US or not. I’m from Poland.

No problem, I was actually plannig to ask you the same anyway. Have fun at the party.

I had read your previous posts and I was following your debate, and a lot of the points you raised actually made me think of the DDR (having studied 8 years of German/German studies, it’s always my default example because political studies on other countries were 2 intense years, at best).

In the DDR, communism really did make people kinda lazy. Outside of large cities (and in them to a lesser extent) were tons of people who had absolutely useless, menial jobs just so they’d be working. Then they have to integrate into a competitive economy and they lose their job, and there isn’t one to replace it. East German communism created problems that haven’t been resolved even today.

Anyway, I think you raised a lot of interesting points.

Pony Express

Avatar: 23887 Wed Feb 04 13:47:04 -0500 2009
3

Level 35 Camwhore

MY bum HURTS BECAUSE I SHOVED THESE HEELS UP THERE AND NOW THEY ARE STUCK

i would like to point out that germany had a multi party system during the wiemar republic.

look at how that worked out…

Skyreal

Avatar: Boobs
8

Level 24 Camwhore

“The Lady is a Tramp”

Kasgaurd Posted:

i would like to point out that germany had a multi party system during the wiemar republic.

look at how that worked out…

I would also like to point out that Germany was in huge debt and depression during that time. Kind of like the US now, actually, although the US isn’t quite in depression yet.

mary misanth-
rope

Avatar: mary misanthrope's Avatar
14

Level 35 Emo Kid

Second Best mammary glands on Forumwarz

Kasgaurd Posted:

i would like to point out that germany had a multi party system during the wiemar republic.

look at how that worked out…

Frankly, that’s an incredibly simplistic analysis. Log in to see images!

The Weimar Republic wasn’t a great period for Germany, and there were a lot of social problems that led to the rise of Nazism – both economic and “psychological”. Your money is worth ****, people are hungry, parts of your country are annexed, you basically are considered the sgreat times of the world because you were bumigned full blame for the most mindblowingly horrific war humanity has ever seen…

The fact that a fascist government arises out of a political arena with more than 2 active parties has nothing to do with the system, but rather the context of society of the time.

mary misanthrope edited this message on 03/29/2008 6:01PM

Amp Zaphrix

Avatar: Middle Finger
2

Level 10 Troll

“Pain in the ASCII”

Kasgaurd Posted:

i would like to point out that germany had a multi party system during the wiemar republic.

look at how that worked out…

I believe this goes back to the earlier point of Ad Hoc logic. Also, I believe I can put a flag on that play, calling Godwin’s law on you.

finale

Avatar: Blood Cells

Level 10 Emo Kid

“Gloomy Gus”

...Godwin’s law doesn’t really belong in SRS discussion. Beyond that, I have to stay silent, as I don’t know enough European history to weigh in on this. Generally though, I feel as if all these positive theoretical arguments are wrong, and all the negative theoretical arguments will have at least an element of truth.

Communism sucks.

Anarchism probably sucks.

Socialism sucks.

Democracy sucks, but often it seems to last a bit longer because there are more folks from all the different ideological dogmas doing whatever works in their respective areas.

The only systems that are guaranteed fail are those proposed by Ayn Rand.

finale edited this message on 03/29/2008 10:37PM

Irascible

Avatar: Irascible's Avatar
4

[My Balls]

Level 15 Troll

The Duke of Fail

There is no “perfectly” working system. For god’s sake, the empire most people think of when they think of “working” was Rome. It went through three (or more, correct me please) different phases in its history. It ended up destroying itself while being attacked from the outside. Nothing ALWAYS works. There are always problems. It is human nature to work towards disorder, albeit subconsciously.

finale

Avatar: Blood Cells

Level 10 Emo Kid

“Gloomy Gus”

IrascibleRedoubt Posted:

There is no “perfectly” working system. For god’s sake, the empire most people think of when they think of “working” was Rome. It went through three (or more, correct me please) different phases in its history. It ended up destroying itself while being attacked from the outside. Nothing ALWAYS works. There are always problems. It is human nature to work towards disorder, albeit subconsciously.

I agree, I think.

Vince Russo

Avatar: Vince Russo's Avatar
5

Level 35 Troll

“Problem Child IV”

HunyrgLiekTehWofl Posted:

To me, those are just a bunch of 3-letter acronyms. But in case you were wondering, the health care here also excells at squeezing money, and offering barely any treatment at all. Being government-run and all. And it’s doing it’s best to hinder private health care systems, which are offering more while charging moreorless the same.

Well those “acronyms” I posted are “in a nutshell” the dominant health care systems available here in the United States. Each one has their own benefits above “free” healthcare (which is atrocious) and against each other. However with the government charging private practices more and more money through taxes and “licenses” the normally affordable systems have now either

a) raised their rates TREMENDOUSLY in comparison to the last 10 years (or “pre-Bush)

b) opted to keep their rates lower than the competition at the price of service and reputable doctors.

c) screw over the people by (I’m dead serious on this one = HMO) “misdiagnosing” the patient forcing them to keep returning to the doctors office until whatever the real “problem” is becomes life threatening. This way the doctors can collect money off the insurance companies for maximum amount of visits at the risk of the patient.

Trust me if you have cancer? You’re not going to know about it through HMO until its already well into the operating stage. This way they can collect for the operating procedure. The government have forced these underhanded methods through their insane taxations and bullying of private practices and clinics.

Here in America our doctors do NOT prevent sickness anymore. They only have one rule. Prevent death. So unless you are ready to die? Don’t expect to get proper health care unless you fork out the ca$h.

I really don’t know how your government deals with medication prices in Poland, but I can bumure you here its a ****ing joke. The American system and policies are so bad and so overpriced when it comes to medications that people that REALLY need those prescriptions have actually had to resort to going over the border to Canada in order to purchase them for cheaper.

American Diplomacy has been a failure to the well-being of its citizens for years. Its only getting worse.

Vince Russo

Avatar: Vince Russo's Avatar
5

Level 35 Troll

“Problem Child IV”

HunyrgLiekTehWofl Posted:

Ah, luckily I have only a vague idea who McCarthy was. I base my opinions on the fact that I live in country that struggled with communism for about 50 years. So, sorry about that, but I’ve seen it. I’ve read book that are elaborate metaphors, just to bypbum censorship. I’ve seen pictures and movies which were locked for years, as they didn’t support the party’s point of view. I know of people who were hunted down and murdered after WWII, as they were opposing the Soviet with the same determination they opposed the Nazis. I’ve seen posters teching people to contempt free traders, and glorifying physical workers (this can be answer to your doctor & garbageman argument, personally I rescpect people who work hard and with pbumion, no matter what their job is, I don’t know how you want from salaries to respect).

I too, know first and second hand of the horrors of Stalinism. Though my father was of Mongolian heritage (which as of the last 10 years broke away from their Communist government and have struggled so badly that the country has literally gone backwards towards tribal societies. My mother (& the grandparents I knew) came from Hungary during WW2 fleeing from the Nazi’s and the Communist government. I have heard many horrible stories of how my uncle was literally smashed and killed under a German tank (I wasn’t born yet). Most of my family line died in WW2 against the Nazi regime, except for those who fled to America.

The Stalinist side of it was no better as the Communist militias did little for the people they were supposed to protect and believed in instilling military fear into the hearts of the people. They too walked through the streets of Tjor and “policed” the city in whatever way pleased them.

The Stalin era of Communism was the black eye and wounded heart of what Communism was supposed to represent. Even after the fall of Stalin the Soviet Union was so weakened after the second WW that other leaders could not fix what he had broken and fell into his archetype (though no one was worse by any comparison).

The dirtiest fact of all? Stalin killed more people than all of Nazi Germany did. Worse still? They were his own people.

Stalin is not and NEVER was about what real Communism stood for. He is a disgrace… a stain on the fingers and eyes of humanity.

Sorry rant over.

Vince Russo edited this message on 03/30/2008 2:32PM

GRX Dragon

Avatar: Blonde Woman
2

Level 7 Camwhore

“Training Broad”

Althea Posted:

Another problem we have is that Americans love to jump in on the big ****ing finale. No one bothers to vote in locals anymore. Ask any citizen who was running for Treasurer or even Governor, locally, and they’d draw a blank. Unless it was on TV. Because TV tells you what’s right and would NEVER lie to you. Since no one cares who gets elected to political power via each state, it hugely effects who gets to be part of Congress. Can you name any Representatives…? A Senator? Without running to look it up really quick while my back is turned? So when we **** up the balance of power on a small scale, as in our own towns, it causes huge issues when it comes time to vote for the Presidency. Even in the primaries. Ahh, the primaries. Another story.

Democracy, in theory, works. In theory. When Americans don’t care about anyone but themselves (as individuals), it shows in our “Defective Two Party System”. If you want to find the source of the problem, I guarantee you your search should start locally.

Write some ****ing letters. Let people know you’re ****ed.

Don’t vote for Clinton just because she’s a woman.

Don’t vote for Obama just because he’s a minority.

Don’t vote for McCain just — just don’t vote for McCain.

If you seriously think America is a true democratic system, you need to read up on your history and politics again. Since the first day, America has been a “democratic republic” with a constitution. You’re right however, a true democracy cannot work in/of itself, otherwise it’s anarchy in the purest sense.

HunyrgLiekTehWofl Posted:

My advice: [everything]

I couldn’t agree more. Whether on paper or reality, there’s absolutely nothing good about Socialism, Communism, Marxism, or whatever other word you want to give it. They’re dystopias, every single one of them since they all promote a perfect world.

PIMPTASTIC-FROTH Posted:

@Hungry – Yes, communism’s flaws might be to difficult for any government to overcome…but as I’ve said before, many countries have borrowed from socialist and Marxist theory. Even the most conservative American is very, VERY liberal (American conservatism is more-or-less ‘clbumical’ liberalism), and just because a country like France isn’t communist, doesn’t mean they can’t institute universal health care, or other socialist concepts.

You’re only half-right. However, America was becoming more Socialist/Communist since earlier than almost other nation ever. It started in the late 1800s with the illegal ratification of the 16th amendment, you can thank the bankers for that.

Obviously it goes much further than that and the reality is a society based on Communism works under a prolific belief in their government and in their country as a whole, something America has not had since the death of Kennedy.

No, it has gone back since the original 13 colonies long before 1776. Americans have never accepted blind-trust in the government, at least not until they were forced to in the 1900s by a bunch of bankers, via the 16th amendment.

GRX Dragon edited this message on 04/02/2008 3:25PM

GRX Dragon

Avatar: Blonde Woman
2

Level 7 Camwhore

“Training Broad”

In Communism everyone is equal. Communism doesn’t fear and discriminate against race or sexual preferences. It doesn’t try and hold them back because of the language they speak or their personal spiritual beliefs. Communism re-establishes hope in a uniformed government that ACTUALLY cares about it citizens and HELPS them to achieve greater glory for their country, their family, and for themselves.

The American Democracy is HELLBENT on screwing over its people for every cent it can shove in their leaders pockets. Where as in a Communist government the leaders and the people are all paid the same.

America isn’t perfect, but nor do we strive to be perfect. However, that is exactly why Communism is worse. Everyone has to believe that the government is perfect, there really is no choice in the matter cause the slightest defiance can lead to a revolution. But I’ll tell you what, Capitalism does anything but fear or discriminate. Try reading up on Ayn Rand sometime. Capitalism is simply about, “I” as in Individualism, and how “I” can appear to be different from “U2-1111”. Yes, some people deserve more than others-get over it. And if the government has to get involved, it really isn’t helping anyone. Helping someone is when the people willingly give up their time to help someone, doesn’t happen in any non-Capitalist theory.

America’s leaders on the other hand have only been “hell-bent” since the 16th amendment, before then we did actually trust our leaders more-and they actually were the people, good or bad they were.

Do you base that on the lack of education that the American Democracy is notorious for ignoring? The American school system is so poor and dysfunctional that its only because of those children deemed as gifted (aka with lots of money) that give our country any kind of educational credibility.

Quite frankly, the school systems in America suck because the parents actually go around suing anyone who hurts their kid’s stupid feelings. Then they whine about how their kids get beat up, or whine about the schools actually trying to stop a fight. Normally, I would say the parents should have to pay. But they do, it’s not helping period. And what, you think this is because of democracy? This is where the “entitlement” theory led to that that stupid president Franklin D. Roosevelt created as a result of the “Social Security” fund that never even was meant to retire on anyways!!!

Perhaps there would be many people suffering from medical problems and handicaps. Well as we ALL know the American Diplomacy gets off on squeezing money from the poor and offering sub-par treatments and PHENOMENALLY high prices. HMO, PPO, Blue Cross-Blue Shield… its all bull****. Under a Communist government paid system there would be no worries about funding from the people.

Has absolutely nothing to do with the American government being a republic. Perhaps the American government itself trying to tax the ****-loads out of any rich person while giving any illegal free access to everything we have. Plenty of hospitals have closed in the past years precisely because of Bush’s liberal policy on illegal immigration. Hell, I don’t even think Britain is stupid enough to open their borders just to anyone like Bush has to America. Intuition costs are too high? Oh really, mind telling that to the illegals who can get a scholarship into Ivy League schools? Don’t get me wrong, just that I’d rather see a thousand Americans getting free pbumes to Harvard or the University of Colorado than a single illegal.

Kasgaurd Posted:

i would like to point out that germany had a multi party system during the wiemar republic.

look at how that worked out…

I would like to point out that Hitler was elected because the Germans believed he could get them out of a depression that Europe ILLEGALLY put them through by taxation beyond all reasoning.

Escher

Avatar: Escher's Avatar
13

[SRSLY]

Level 10 Camwhore

really huge titty ****

finale Posted:

Communism sucks.

Anarchism probably sucks.

Socialism sucks.

Democracy sucks, but often it seems to last a bit longer because there are more folks from all the different ideological dogmas doing whatever works in their respective areas.

As Winston Churchill said, “Democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried.”

Of course, he also said, “You can always count on Americans to do the right thing… after they have tried everything else.”

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