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Politics Defective Two Party System (USA)

Sxxy_Saide_69

Avatar: Corset 2
2

Level 10 Camwhore

“Leave it to Cleavage”

IrascibleRedoubt Posted:

Look at Canada, they have a four party system. They have less crime in general. Less political uprising. Could creating a three or four party system help this? Discuss.

Canada legalized marijuana. I think that has more to do with their crime rate and lack of political uprising than the four party system does. Not to mention they aren’t in the middle of Vietnam-esque war and everyone gets free health care.

Vince Russo Posted:

I personally think that giving money to charity is a HUGE scam. I’d rather devote a few hours and help people myself.

Volunteering may work for you, but it doesn’t work for everyone due to time constraints or their pbumions (people who want to save the rain forests would probably have a hard time trying to get down there to hug the trees.) And unfortunately, you are right about a lot of charities being scams. That’s why you do your homework before donating. I, personally, will only donate to charities that use 15% (preferably 10% but there aren’t many of those) or less of their income for something other than their main purpose.

Sxxy_Saide_69 edited this message on 03/28/2008 12:23PM

Amp Zaphrix

Avatar: Middle Finger
2

Level 10 Troll

“Pain in the ASCII”

Sxxy_Saide_69 Posted:

Canada legalized marijuana. I think that has more to do with their crime rate and lack of political uprising than the four party system does. Not to mention they aren’t in the middle of Vietnam-esque war and everyone gets free health care.

Damn right, man…

(Tokes)

Sxxy_Saide_69

Avatar: Corset 2
2

Level 10 Camwhore

“Leave it to Cleavage”

Amp Zaphrix Posted:

Damn right, man…

(Tokes)

Hey, puff puff pbum!Log in to see images!

Amp Zaphrix

Avatar: Middle Finger
2

Level 10 Troll

“Pain in the ASCII”

(Puff… puff… puff…

...)

Uh… what was I supposed to do after puff?

Sxxy_Saide_69

Avatar: Corset 2
2

Level 10 Camwhore

“Leave it to Cleavage”

Amp Zaphrix Posted:

(Puff… puff… puff…

...)

Uh… what was I supposed to do after puff?

you were supposed to tubmail me your bag.Log in to see images!

Skyreal

Avatar: Boobs
8

Level 24 Camwhore

“The Lady is a Tramp”

Talking about greed is pointless. A capitalist society depends on and promotes “greed,” or at least individual success, and the fact is the world is trending towards capitalism. Like mary said, you can’t rewind history – at least not to correct the past. Repeating it is something we seem to do well, though. Breaking out of the capitalism promotes capitalist promotes capitalism loop is going to take something monumental.

In response to the OP, I think Canada was a pretty bad choice for comparison.

Paraone

Avatar: Paraone's Avatar
7

[egg]

Level 10 Troll

i am a heron. i ahev a long neck and i pick fish out of the water w/ my beak.

The greatest form of Capitalism becomes inherit in the fact the Hot Topic sells hundreds of thousands of Che Guerra tshirts every year at a 60% profit margin to kids who are raging against the capitalist conglomerate.

Vince Russo

Avatar: Vince Russo's Avatar
5

Level 35 Troll

“Problem Child IV”

Paraone Posted:

The greatest form of Capitalism becomes inherit in the fact the Hot Topic sells hundreds of thousands of Che Guerra tshirts every year at a 60% profit margin to kids who are raging against the capitalist conglomerate.

Didn’t you know?

Ant1-Establishment is all the rage this year.

Log in to see images!

mary misanth-
rope

Avatar: mary misanthrope's Avatar
14

Level 35 Emo Kid

Second Best mammary glands on Forumwarz

Paraone Posted:

The greatest form of Capitalism becomes inherit in the fact the Hot Topic sells hundreds of thousands of Che Guerra tshirts every year at a 60% profit margin to kids who are raging against the capitalist conglomerate.

Haha, seriously. Not to mention those t-shirts were made in sweatshops. Revolution will only come through contributing to the economic oppression of others!

Bill_Murray_-
Fan_7383

Avatar: 7241 2011-07-31 00:42:33 -0400
9

[i have a thirteen inch male reproductive organ click for proof]

Level 35 Camwhore

Oh whoops, I dropped my monster condom that I use for my magnum dong

Vince Russo Posted:

Absolutely AGREE.

Communism gets a horrible rep because of Stalin.. who did everything against the laws and ideals set by his predecessor Lenin. Stalin killed more people than Nazi Germany and unfortunately they were mostly his own.

Lenin killed about a hundred thousand but he only killed religious leaders and such. (something I as an atheist at least understand, though it isn’t very “human” to do such)

The point is even Lenin who is considered one of the greatest Communist leaders in history (Deng Xiaoping is up there as well) had many failures among his morality and could not lead his people with a pure heart.

As much as I love the idea of a true communism or even to a lesser extent anarchy (I still feel leaders need to exist), the problem is that as humanity rolls on less and less people of pure and of “strong virtue” seem to exist.

No more are the day’s of righteous actions coming from the church or religious raised. No more are the day’s of a hard work ethic supported by a strong sense of family obligation. True communism has fallen and in its ideal place lie the deterioration of man.

Well, don’t forget that you don’t have to be a communist government to use communist ideals. American democracy, as well as most of the world, has borrowed from the theories of Marxism and Socialism. Even though communism has it’s fatal flaws (what form of government doesn’t?), Marxism still plays an important role on the world stage.

I don’t think a two party system inherently ruins politics – even though splinter parties will never produce a President (barring something like the rise of Fascism in Italy/Germany, but that’s more like a revolution than anything a democratic process), through the formations of coalitions and taking away votes from Rep/Dem candidates, they do produce an impact and can actually get some legislation moved.

The problem is that there is a HUGE rift between our two parties. It’s a “with-us-or-against-us” ideology, where if a politician leans to far to the opposite side, they effectively commit political suicide. What’s even more a problem is that the political battlefield is so fierce that independents want NOTHING to do with it, which results in less voices BEING voiced, and the system just spirals downward.

However, I think people are starting to realize the situation, if only because Barack Obama has become so vocal about it. We’re seeing record voting numbers for primaries, and I think if Obama gets the nomination and holds to his promises, we might see some political scars (that have existed for decades, not just since the election of Bush) begin to heal.

Ultimately, I think the whole situation is the specter of the Civil Rights Movement hanging over our heads, where the White Privilege power base was really challenged (successfully) for the first time. We’ve got progressive liberals trying to fight for change, while we’ve got conservatives who, at their best, are defending a system that heralds back to the days of white power…and at their worst, are still trying to DEFEND that system of white power.

HunyrgLiekTe-
hWofl

Avatar: harblgar
2

[The Fondler of Bal-
lsacks
]

Level 17 Troll

“Pain in the ASCII”

Vince Russo Posted:

Absolutely AGREE.

Communism gets a horrible rep because of Stalin.. who did everything against the laws and ideals set by his predecessor Lenin. Stalin killed more people than Nazi Germany and unfortunately they were mostly his own.

Lenin killed about a hundred thousand but he only killed religious leaders and such. (something I as an atheist at least understand, though it isn’t very “human” to do such)

I’d like You to be more specific on the “understand” part, because right now I’m getting a very unsettling feeling that you don’t mind killing hundreds of thousands of people if they happen to not support your point of view.

The point is even Lenin who is considered one of the greatest Communist leaders in history (Deng Xiaoping is up there as well) had many failures among his morality and could not lead his people with a pure heart.

As much as I love the idea of a true communism or even to a lesser extent anarchy (I still feel leaders need to exist), the problem is that as humanity rolls on less and less people of pure and of “strong virtue” seem to exist.

My advice: get off the internet. Seriously, no wonder you’re getting bitter thoughts about humanity if you’re reading flamewars. Also, the idea of degradation of society is probably as old as any society. The very fact that humans are still out there proves that it’s not that bad.

But that’s a sidenote. My real point is, I’m starting to get very tired of that “I Log in to see images! communism, but I understand that it’s good only in theory” crap. It’s not even good in theory. People are not ants. The happiness of an individual is not achieved through happiness of the group he/she belongs to, or at least not primarily through it. The whole concept is wrong on so many levels, I don’t know where to begin. Maybe I’ll try to make a list:

* Since the goods are supposed to be distributed equally, you can’t get any reward for working harder. Also anyone who slacks off still gets as much as anyone else. The result? People stop trying to do their best, and instead try to work as little as possible. The ethos or work, which You mentioned later in your post, is destroyed.

* But there’s more to it: You forget that people have different needs. Since EVERY good is supposed to be distributed equally, there is no logical solution to how should, for example, books be distributd if only 50% of people want to have some. Continued…

Edit: Messed up the quote tags a bit

HunyrgLiekTehWofl edited this message on 03/29/2008 3:51PM

HunyrgLiekTe-
hWofl

Avatar: harblgar
2

[The Fondler of Bal-
lsacks
]

Level 17 Troll

“Pain in the ASCII”

* In fact, the whole idea of owning property is dicouraged in communism. Everything’s supposed to be owned by “the collective” which quickly translated to “no one”. And people are treating it appriopriately. Thus, the whole agriculture, for example, is of ****ty quality because no one cares about how the crops will grow. As thay belong to no one, it’s no one’s problem.

* The graph of any hnatural ability in society will always resemble a Gauss bell curve. This means that people with above average abilities will always be a minority. Since communism promotes being avarage and punishes excelling in anything, it’s in their vital interest to be, coloquially speaking, to be as ****ing uninvolved in any communistic society as possible. And because since whe whole system works only if everyone’s supporting it, the government will do anything to keep them within the system. Which inevitably leads us to genocide. Yes, inevitably. The hasn’t been a single country in this world where communism worked. QED, I guess.

In a nutshell:

-I want to have the right to own property that is mine, and only mine, if I choose to.

-I want to have the right to be independent from any regular member of the society, and to have nobody be dependent on me, if I choose to.

-I want to have the right to get paid proportionally to the amount of work I do

-I want to think, speak, read and listen to whatever I want.

-I want to be able to do things that can be potentially dangerous to me, as long as I’m aware of the consequences. I don’t want the government to ben them because of ill-concieved care.

And the communism aims to take all, or almost all of these rights from me. How could I be NOT opposed to it, if it diminishes Freedom?

Bill_Murray_-
Fan_7383

Avatar: 7241 2011-07-31 00:42:33 -0400
9

[i have a thirteen inch male reproductive organ click for proof]

Level 35 Camwhore

Oh whoops, I dropped my monster condom that I use for my magnum dong

@Hungry – Yes, communism’s flaws might be to difficult for any government to overcome…but as I’ve said before, many countries have borrowed from socialist and Marxist theory. Even the most conservative American is very, VERY liberal (American conservatism is more-or-less ‘clbumical’ liberalism), and just because a country like France isn’t communist, doesn’t mean they can’t institute universal health care, or other socialist concepts.

Vince Russo

Avatar: Vince Russo's Avatar
5

Level 35 Troll

“Problem Child IV”

HunyrgLiekTehWofl Posted:

I’d like You to be more specific on the “understand” part, because right now I’m getting a very unsettling feeling that you don’t mind killing hundreds of thousands of people if they happen to not support your point of view.

My advice: get off the internet. Seriously, no wonder you’re getting bitter thoughts about humanity if you’re reading flamewars. Also, the idea of degradation of society is probably as old as any society. The very fact that humans are still out there proves that it’s not that bad.

HAHAHA!~ That last line leads me to believe that you would support war as a means of population control.

Make no mistake, my moral beliefs in Communism are not a teeny emo’s fad of the week. I’ve been in full support of “neo-Communism” for over 14 years and have been apart of various rallies and petitions in the Chicago-land area from anti-war to charity work for the poor.

As for the religious point in my first part, I do apologize. After re-reading it, it seemed HIGHLY insensitive coming from an uneducated point of view. Religious power was a different structure and hold back then. Perhaps not as barbaric as that of the medieval ages but still just as definitive with their ABSOLUTE control. The people were poor and the Church continued to squeeze them for more financially, physically, everything… you name it.

While I thought my post made it pretty clear that I do not ADVOCATE or personally believe that the slaughter of thousands is the answer for ANY condition, I do feel that I understand (to the best that I possibly can) why Lenin chose to do such.

And just for the record Lenin’s guilt practically killed him.

Vince Russo

Avatar: Vince Russo's Avatar
5

Level 35 Troll

“Problem Child IV”

HunyrgLiekTehWofl Posted:

But that’s a sidenote. My real point is, I’m starting to get very tired of that “I Log in to see images! communism, but I understand that it’s good only in theory” crap. It’s not even good in theory. People are not ants. The happiness of an individual is not achieved through happiness of the group he/she belongs to, or at least not primarily through it. The whole concept is wrong on so many levels, I don’t know where to begin. Maybe I’ll try to make a list:

* Since the goods are supposed to be distributed equally, you can’t get any reward for working harder. Also anyone who slacks off still gets as much as anyone else. The result? People stop trying to do their best, and instead try to work as little as possible. The ethos or work, which You mentioned later in your post, is destroyed.

* But there’s more to it: You forget that people have different needs. Since EVERY good is supposed to be distributed equally, there is no logical solution to how should, for example, books be distributd if only 50% of people want to have some. Continued…

I really suggest you pick up a copy of the Communist Manifesto.

Every argument you’ve placed here are myths, and are completely out of context of what Marxism is/was meant to be. But I’ll humor you and answer your concerns.

*1) The people are expected to put in as much as they receive as a whole society. This does not lead to hive mind actions (as you stated by your “ant” thought) nor does it give people the option of “slacking off”. Its a simple philosophy that is applied in Democracy (in theory) as well. You don’t work? You don’t eat.

Obviously it goes much further than that and the reality is a society based on Communism works under a prolific belief in their government and in their country as a whole, something America has not had since the death of Kennedy. Now democracy is so flawed that scam and con artists end up living well established lives for doing absolutely nothing or by getting by on the hard work of others. Tell me HOW IS THAT FAIR?

In Communism everyone is equal. Communism doesn’t fear and discriminate against race or sexual preferences. It doesn’t try and hold them back because of the language they speak or their personal spiritual beliefs. Communism re-establishes hope in a uniformed government that ACTUALLY cares about it citizens and HELPS them to achieve greater glory for their country, their family, and for themselves.

The American Democracy is HELLBENT on screwing over its people for every cent it can shove in their leaders pockets. Where as in a Communist government the leaders and the people are all paid the same.

*2) You speak of different needs? What is so drastically different of a need that someone would refuse to not only survive but THRIVE? Sure, not everyone is book smart and perhaps those people are better builders or artists. In Communism people are given a choice based on THEIR wants and their abilities.

No one is going to make Bob the Builder drop his hammer and start practicing biomedicine. Seriously. How you came up with that thought… I really don’t want to know.

EDIT: Sorry for the double post but the damn forums limit long rants. More coming Log in to see images! Vince Russo edited this message on 03/29/2008 3:55PM

Bill_Murray_-
Fan_7383

Avatar: 7241 2011-07-31 00:42:33 -0400
9

[i have a thirteen inch male reproductive organ click for proof]

Level 35 Camwhore

Oh whoops, I dropped my monster condom that I use for my magnum dong

Vince Russo Posted:

The American Democracy is HELLBENT on screwing over its people for every cent it can shove in their leaders pockets. Where as in a Communist government the leaders and the people are all paid the same.

I have a big problem with this statement. You’re comparing something that can (and sometimes does) happen in PRACTICE to how communism should work in THEORY. Yes, in communism, the leaders are supposed to be payed equally as much as the people. However, as the old saying goes, “Some people are more equal than others”.

Vince Russo

Avatar: Vince Russo's Avatar
5

Level 35 Troll

“Problem Child IV”

HunyrgLiekTehWofl Posted:

* In fact, the whole idea of owning property is dicouraged in communism. Everything’s supposed to be owned by “the collective” which quickly translated to “no one”. And people are treating it appriopriately. Thus, the whole agriculture, for example, is of ****ty quality because no one cares about how the crops will grow. As thay belong to no one, it’s no one’s problem.

*3)Let me state simply that Democracy also doesn’t support owning your own property. Ever hear of taxes? Why do you pay them if what you’ve bought is already YOURS? Why is it if you cant pay your taxes, the American government comes and takes what is yours, because of a fee from the government on your land that was no longer theirs to charge for to begin with?

Communism does NOT alienate their citizens. The land you live on is property of the government, but it is your duty and probably in your own personal interests as well (no one likes living in squalor) to help your country and everyone in it. It’s hard to think that people would genuinely want to HELP the government being an American citizen and all, but the thing is the PEOPLE are the government and in “almost” every literal sense does that term apply.

Vince Russo

Avatar: Vince Russo's Avatar
5

Level 35 Troll

“Problem Child IV”

PIMPTASTIC-FROTH Posted:

I have a big problem with this statement. You’re comparing something that can (and sometimes does) happen in PRACTICE to how communism should work in THEORY. Yes, in communism, the leaders are supposed to be payed equally as much as the people. However, as the old saying goes, “Some people are more equal than others”.

(sidenote) You’re right. People fail. What we are talking about is theory. I made that point in my first argument.

Vince Russo

Avatar: Vince Russo's Avatar
5

Level 35 Troll

“Problem Child IV”

HunyrgLiekTehWofl Posted:

* The graph of any hnatural ability in society will always resemble a Gauss bell curve. This means that people with above average abilities will always be a minority. Since communism promotes being avarage and punishes excelling in anything, it’s in their vital interest to be, coloquially speaking, to be as ****ing uninvolved in any communistic society as possible. And because since whe whole system works only if everyone’s supporting it, the government will do anything to keep them within the system. Which inevitably leads us to genocide. Yes, inevitably. The hasn’t been a single country in this world where communism worked. QED, I guess.

How do you know who has average ability? Do you base that on the lack of education that the American Democracy is notorious for ignoring? The American school system is so poor and dysfunctional that its only because of those children deemed as gifted (aka with lots of money) that give our country any kind of educational credibility.

If everyone was sent to Harvard and all schools were expected to teach all students with the same amount of fervor and pbumion that Harvard does it would be much more “fair” to judge people by their abilities, at least academically.

Perhaps there would be many people suffering from medical problems and handicaps. Well as we ALL know the American Diplomacy gets off on squeezing money from the poor and offering sub-par treatments and PHENOMENALLY high prices. HMO, PPO, Blue Cross-Blue Shield… its all bull****. Under a Communist government paid system there would be no worries about funding from the people.

Vince Russo

Avatar: Vince Russo's Avatar
5

Level 35 Troll

“Problem Child IV”

HunyrgLiekTehWofl Posted:

In a nutshell:

-I want to have the right to own property that is mine, and only mine, if I choose to.

You don’t have that now. But the reality is in a Communist government your “greed” wouldn’t exist.

HunyrgLiekTehWofl Posted:

-I want to have the right to be independent from any regular member of the society, and to have nobody be dependent on me, if I choose to.

Once again proof of a greedy sentiment. You would rather other people suffer for your own gratifications by not being a part of the environment rather than actually helping your fellow man. Funny, when this debate first started you were questioning my humanity. Now it is “I” who question yours.

HunyrgLiekTehWofl Posted:

-I want to have the right to get paid proportionally to the amount of work I do

So basically you would rather people be beneath you because of the job they do rather than stand beside you equal. You would be leading people to believe that a doctor deserves more compensation than a garbageman. Well trust me when I say a city without garbageman would be a very very horrible place indeed.

Your career path is your choice. Not your privilege. If you want to be a doctor? Be a doctor. If you want to be an designer? Be a designer. If you want to be a garbageman? Be one.

No one tells you what you can and cannot do. After all you cannot force love. Whether its love of your profession or love of your people.

HunyrgLiekTehWofl Posted:

-I want to think, speak, read and listen to whatever I want.

LOL> Thats Stalin you’re thinking of. He was the master of propaganda and unfortunately McCarthy made people like “you” believe that is all that Communism was/is about.

For the record any self-respecting follower of Communism spits on the hole where Stalin was dumped.

HunyrgLiekTehWofl Posted:

-I want to be able to do things that can be potentially dangerous to me, as long as I’m aware of the consequences. I don’t want the government to ben them because of ill-concieved care.

I dont understand what your getting at. You want to jump off a bridge or something without the government watching? Log in to see images!

HunyrgLiekTehWofl Posted:

And the communism aims to take all, or almost all of these rights from me. How could I be NOT opposed to it, if it diminishes Freedom?

Well if you have thoroughly read everything Ive posted, I hope I have changed your mind about it. I hope I have helped clear up alot of the myths and “bull****” that people have fed you over the years. Feel free to ask more.

I enjoy correcting people.

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