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Religion dear starfang 42

Starfang_42

Avatar: Red Green Flashing
2

[Random Insanity]

Level 30 Troll

The **** of the Trollhole

Amp Zaphrix Posted:

Illusion is not only seeing something that is not there, it could also not be seeing something that is indeed there. The illusion of reality is not a simple series of parlor tricks, but the idea behind the stage magic of Las Vegas and many street magicians is the ability to warp these illusions further, or perhaps to dispel them. Magic is an alteration of perception, from simple glamers to the conjuration of solid objects from nothingness.

Either that, or sleight of hand.

Perhaps. However, I think that we have to take base reality at face value until we see (hear, taste, smell, or touch) otherwise, with a healthy amount of trying to peek behind the proverbial curtain. This may sound a bit circular, but that’s why I believe the universe is fundamentally real. If it is real, then the parts of it that are not are the exceptions, and we can empirically seek out the illusions, since they will eventually stop being consistent. From the right angle, the tiger doesn’t disappear, and the earth isn’t the center of the universe. As long as we check the things we perceive as real from as many angles as we can, we can build up a collective perception much larger than our individual one.


My ego is trumped only by how ****ing awesome I am.

Amp Zaphrix

Avatar: Middle Finger
2

Level 10 Troll

“Pain in the ASCII”

You seem to have taken my argument the wrong way. I am fully aware of the solid existence of the universe, but reality as defined by the individual is an illusion. Nothing is real unless we have perceived it in some way, am I correct? If I am, then I must say that our perceptions are limited to our senses, which have their own limits imposed upon them. Now, add to that the fact that we as Human minds must alter our own limited perceptions, pieces of the Truth(note the capital T) in order to comprehend them, and garner a sense of reality.


Hey, I’m just playin’ the role. Really, I’m a nice guy at heart, just Tubmail me to find out.

On an epic quest to male reproductive organslap all emo kids into oblivion.

Starfang_42

Avatar: Red Green Flashing
2

[Random Insanity]

Level 30 Troll

The **** of the Trollhole

Amp Zaphrix Posted:

You seem to have taken my argument the wrong way. I am fully aware of the solid existence of the universe, but reality as defined by the individual is an illusion. Nothing is real unless we have perceived it in some way, am I correct? If I am, then I must say that our perceptions are limited to our senses, which have their own limits imposed upon them. Now, add to that the fact that we as Human minds must alter our own limited perceptions, pieces of the Truth(note the capital T) in order to comprehend them, and garner a sense of reality.

Ah. Late night and such, brain’s not working at full efficiency. Which may explain why I’m not seeing the conclusion in your last post. Whether or not something exists if it is not perceived in some way is debatable, as it is inherently untestable. However, some information on things must exist even when they are not perceived, otherwise continuity and causality (whether real or illusionary) would be impossible. Take, for example, a baseball. Our main perception of it is sight, so if we close our eyes, ideally we would stop perceiving it. Yet it would continue on course until we either chose to perceive it again or it forced itself into another area of of perception (such as hitting us). But I do suppose we, as humans, can define our own reality and indeed do from observation or lack of it. It is by watching our definition and its contradictions that we come closer to the Truth. Static portions of the Truth or those which follow recognizable behaviors can then be cataloged and studied in detail by several people,

Right now, I need sleep. I’ve got a lot to do tomorrow, and several nights of staying up until 3 in the morning have left me mentally bankrupt. I’ll be back on sometime tomorrow if you want to continue the discussion.


My ego is trumped only by how ****ing awesome I am.

Amp Zaphrix

Avatar: Middle Finger
2

Level 10 Troll

“Pain in the ASCII”

It would be quite interesting.

My counter-point to your counter-point is thus: In theory, if one had absolutely no conception of the baseball, no possible perception or logical awareness, one could, potentially, be unaffected by it. Consider it a sort of mind over matter. In theory, if one was completely unaware of the effect of gravity, even in the most basic of senses, one could fly. But, like all those old Saturday morning cartoons, if that same person was suddenly taught that all things are drawn towards a greater body unless suspended in some way, that floating person would plummet to the Earth like the rest of us. Of course, this is just theory.


Hey, I’m just playin’ the role. Really, I’m a nice guy at heart, just Tubmail me to find out.

On an epic quest to male reproductive organslap all emo kids into oblivion.

Starfang_42

Avatar: Red Green Flashing
2

[Random Insanity]

Level 30 Troll

The **** of the Trollhole

Amp Zaphrix Posted:

It would be quite interesting.

My counter-point to your counter-point is thus: In theory, if one had absolutely no conception of the baseball, no possible perception or logical awareness, one could, potentially, be unaffected by it. Consider it a sort of mind over matter. In theory, if one was completely unaware of the effect of gravity, even in the most basic of senses, one could fly. But, like all those old Saturday morning cartoons, if that same person was suddenly taught that all things are drawn towards a greater body unless suspended in some way, that floating person would plummet to the Earth like the rest of us. Of course, this is just theory.

That has possibility in theory. However, finding data to support or refute it is difficult if not impossible. A newborn baby, who arguably has no knowledge at all of physics (gravity in our example), will still fall if dropped. However, this may be a case of observation and weights from the observers’ knowledge of gravity affecting their collective perception such that to everyone the baby indeed does fall. This relates to an interesting point. You are familiar with Schroedinger’s Cat? Perhaps the universe functions similar to that idea on a macro scale, with one important difference: Instead of the probability waveform collapsing on observation, it collapses on the potential of observation. For example, a tree falling in a forest would fall if someone were in the forest somewhere where they could see/hear it even if they are not, at the moment, watching.


My ego is trumped only by how ****ing awesome I am.

Amp Zaphrix

Avatar: Middle Finger
2

Level 10 Troll

“Pain in the ASCII”

Starfang_42 Posted:

That has possibility in theory. However, finding data to support or refute it is difficult if not impossible. A newborn baby, who arguably has no knowledge at all of physics (gravity in our example), will still fall if dropped. However, this may be a case of observation and weights from the observers’ knowledge of gravity affecting their collective perception such that to everyone the baby indeed does fall. This relates to an interesting point. You are familiar with Schroedinger’s Cat? Perhaps the universe functions similar to that idea on a macro scale, with one important difference: Instead of the probability waveform collapsing on observation, it collapses on the potential of observation. For example, a tree falling in a forest would fall if someone were in the forest somewhere where they could see/hear it even if they are not, at the moment, watching.

At the same time, there is a consciousness about nature and life in general, which allows that tree to be and to fall. Either that, or the collective minds of the people have established that trees exist, and they fall. Of course, if one’s mind were free of the limitations of the collective consciousness, they could indeed break the bonds of what we call physics. Take, for example, Jesus. bumuming he did exist, and he performed the miracles he did, he did so by freeing his mind of the limits of the norm. Through sheer blind doubtless faith, he walked on water and spontaneously created bread and fish.


Hey, I’m just playin’ the role. Really, I’m a nice guy at heart, just Tubmail me to find out.

On an epic quest to male reproductive organslap all emo kids into oblivion.

Deathclaw

Avatar: Red Green Flashing

Level 8 Troll

“Jerk Chicken”

Starfang_42 Posted:

I dun liek teh mudkipz. theyz r stoopid fadz.

It’s “meme” not a “fad”. gb2YTMND.


DC IS A fabulous person ;D

Deathclaw

Avatar: Red Green Flashing

Level 8 Troll

“Jerk Chicken”

ALSO DC IS A ACCIDENTAL DOUBLEPOSTING fabulous person

Deathclaw edited this message on 03/14/2008 10:53PM

DC IS A fabulous person ;D

Starfang_42

Avatar: Red Green Flashing
2

[Random Insanity]

Level 30 Troll

The **** of the Trollhole

Amp Zaphrix Posted:

At the same time, there is a consciousness about nature and life in general, which allows that tree to be and to fall. Either that, or the collective minds of the people have established that trees exist, and they fall. Of course, if one’s mind were free of the limitations of the collective consciousness, they could indeed break the bonds of what we call physics. Take, for example, Jesus. bumuming he did exist, and he performed the miracles he did, he did so by freeing his mind of the limits of the norm. Through sheer blind doubtless faith, he walked on water and spontaneously created bread and fish.

Ach. Religion. As far as jesus goes, there are records showing that a man fitting the name and description of jesus existed at that time, but whether he actually performed the miracles remains heavily debatable with the only evidence being the bible and word of mouth, and I’m rather doubtful. After all, if breaking outside the established laws of physics were that simple, we would have seen a lot more of it. Children, the insane, strong believers in any religion, all would be candidates for similar steps outside the accepted laws of physics.


My ego is trumped only by how ****ing awesome I am.

Starfang_42

Avatar: Red Green Flashing
2

[Random Insanity]

Level 30 Troll

The **** of the Trollhole

Deathclaw Posted:

It’s “meme” not a “fad”. gb2YTMND.

Pray tell, what is the difference? Rose by any other name, etc.


My ego is trumped only by how ****ing awesome I am.

Deathclaw

Avatar: Red Green Flashing

Level 8 Troll

“Jerk Chicken”

Starfang_42 Posted:

Pray tell, what is the difference? Rose by any other name, etc.

“Fad” is completely pretentious, and sounds fleeting and menial.

A “meme” is like a beautiful pair of mammary glands, you can never quite forget it.

And it sounds way less fabulous persongy.


DC IS A fabulous person ;D

Starfang_42

Avatar: Red Green Flashing
2

[Random Insanity]

Level 30 Troll

The **** of the Trollhole

Deathclaw Posted:

”Fad” is completely pretentious, and sounds fleeting and menial.

A “meme” is like a beautiful pair of mammary glands, you can never quite forget it.

And it sounds way less fabulous persongy.

well…All I wanna do is bicycle.


My ego is trumped only by how ****ing awesome I am.

Amp Zaphrix

Avatar: Middle Finger
2

Level 10 Troll

“Pain in the ASCII”

Explain David Blaine then.

I was just using Jesus as an example.


Hey, I’m just playin’ the role. Really, I’m a nice guy at heart, just Tubmail me to find out.

On an epic quest to male reproductive organslap all emo kids into oblivion.

Echuu

Avatar: 6433 Tue Jul 21 22:01:07 -0400 2009
10

[Backdoor Amigos]

Level 20 Troll

You made Vader snobby.

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I'M A SIG-DISABLING COCKMONGLER

Starfang_42

Avatar: Red Green Flashing
2

[Random Insanity]

Level 30 Troll

The **** of the Trollhole

Amp Zaphrix Posted:

Explain David Blaine then.

I was just using Jesus as an example.

Better than average physical ability and endurance, and no small amount of training for each one. I see now clear breaking of the laws of physics, if you are referencing his endurance stunts. Beyond that, I’ve seen enough “how it’s done” shows on magic that I’m more inclined to believe it’s sleight of hand and clever misdirection of people’s perceptions. Admittedly, I’ve never seen him up close.


My ego is trumped only by how ****ing awesome I am.

Amp Zaphrix

Avatar: Middle Finger
2

Level 10 Troll

“Pain in the ASCII”

There are a lot of things that science as we know it can’t explain. I leave it to an enlightenment and a freedom from the belief that all things are limited.


Hey, I’m just playin’ the role. Really, I’m a nice guy at heart, just Tubmail me to find out.

On an epic quest to male reproductive organslap all emo kids into oblivion.

Starfang_42

Avatar: Red Green Flashing
2

[Random Insanity]

Level 30 Troll

The **** of the Trollhole

Good point. There’s a lot we don’t know about our universe, and we may one day find out that our accepted laws of physics are limited just like our perception. In fact, we already kind of are with the whole problem of a unified theory. But science is nothing if not dynamic. As an aside, that’s one of the things I dislike about religions, especially ones that maintain that they are undisputed the only right one (see: Christianity and similar) and are static to a very large degree. I mean, how long did it take for the Christian church to officially acknowledge that Galileo and company were right? That’s not to say I hate all religion. Just that I’m not going to follow one that doesn’t keep with the times, accept new facts, and not try to swindle me out of hundreds of thousands of dollars.


My ego is trumped only by how ****ing awesome I am.

Mr_Malaprop

Avatar: Spider Illustration
2

Level 10 Emo Kid

“Gloomy Gus”

Intelligent counter arguments? Erudite conversations? Rational thoughts on the imperfections in the human recognition of the infinite? What’s become of the Trollhole?

Oh, wait. Earlier on in this (surprisingly intelligent) conversation, there was a much more appropriate O RLY owl/LolCats battle.

Whew. I was scared something clbumy was coming out of this forum. I don’t think that the world would be ready for that.

P.S. If you haven’t already seen it, starfang: http://www.venganza.org/

Ramen.

Mr_Malaprop edited this message on 03/15/2008 12:32AM

capital letters are for people without emotional problems

Never forget, kids:

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/5526/kidsee5.jpg

Amp Zaphrix

Avatar: Middle Finger
2

Level 10 Troll

“Pain in the ASCII”

Mr_Malaprop Posted:

Intelligent counter arguments? Erudite conversations? Rational thoughts on the imperfections in the human recognition of the infinite? What’s become of the Trollhole?

Oh, wait. Earlier on in this (surprisingly intelligent) conversation, there was a much more appropriate O RLY owl/LolCats battle.

Whew. I was scared something clbumy was coming out of this forum. I don’t think that the world would be ready for that.

P.S. If you haven’t already seen it, starfang: http://www.venganza.org/

Ramen.

The power of a hijack.

Starfang, I’m not Christian. I believe Jesus lived, taught, and even did the things the Bible claims he did, but I believe that his power did not come from any divinity. He taught that faith can do many wondrous things, and I believe that, and I believe that is how he performed those miracles, through faith in his ability to do so. Perhaps one day we will be able to see past the confines of modern science and be able to do things never before thought possible. Until then, I will theorize.


Hey, I’m just playin’ the role. Really, I’m a nice guy at heart, just Tubmail me to find out.

On an epic quest to male reproductive organslap all emo kids into oblivion.

Starfang_42

Avatar: Red Green Flashing
2

[Random Insanity]

Level 30 Troll

The **** of the Trollhole

Mr_Malaprop Posted:

Intelligent counter arguments? Erudite conversations? Rational thoughts on the imperfections in the human recognition of the infinite? What’s become of the Trollhole?

Oh, wait. Earlier on in this (surprisingly intelligent) conversation, there was a much more appropriate O RLY owl/LolCats battle.

Whew. I was scared something clbumy was coming out of this forum. I don’t think that the world would be ready for that.

P.S. If you haven’t already seen it, starfang: http://www.venganza.org/

Ramen.

Interesting. I’ve heard of pastafarianism, but I never really checked it out until now. I’ll have to dig around a bit, but if I were to take up one of these so called “joke” religions that have turned into real belief systems, I think I would tend more towards mooism (www.churchofmoo.com, has little to nothing concerning cows) because it tends more towards my thought pattern. And they’ve got spiffy quotes like this one:

””Religion is just a tool for getting at the Ultimate Experience of Truth. Most religious people, given this tool, are like the person who, given a set of lock picking tools and a safe containing the Ultimate Prize, have somehow managed to lock themselves inside the safe and leave both treasure and lock picks on the other side of the door.

-Floyd Gecko “


My ego is trumped only by how ****ing awesome I am.

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