scully Posted:

It is not a matter of broken or trying to repress those who enjoy buildr, it is a matter of game balance and looking responsibly at the potential for use and/or abuse. You argue that limiting scoops to the first 14 submissions is horribly restrictive and the next thing you say that your first 10 submissions are much better than your last 10. Well? Doesn’t that imply that you are in fact just throwing those last 10 things up purely for the scoop potential? If not, is there a reason you purposely submitting sub par stuff?

Because obviously some of the later submissions still ARE good, or else I wouldn’t bother submitting them. There’s a big difference between having difficulty being as funny/creative after 30 submissions and being 100% FORCED to be as GOOD AS POSSIBLE during your “allowed” 14.

Buildr is stifled and unfunny enough as it is.

And to your claims that plk and Bashy don’t win because of klan conflicts, then what’s the point of bringing chocolate up?

If no one is currently abusing the chocolates to a point of having medals made easy, then why bother enacting all these drastic changes?

The fact is that the current amount of chocolates for ForumBuildr at least are not enough to warrant remotely the kind of benefit that vanilla or pistachio does, and until those two are addressed chocolate should be left alone.

If anything should be done to fix choco it would be on limiting Itembuildr. As it stands, whoever ends up winning Image or Idea typically has quite a few hours when theirs is the only submission up, allowing them to receive MbumIVE upvotes that don’t accomplish anything.

I think if it gets down to one submission the voting should be frozen so no more people can add to that persons scoop total.

And before you accuse me of more vested interests, I DO play Itembuildr, and I DO get quite a few scoops from it.

plk Posted:

Oh and Fran, as to my chocolates, I’m pretty sure that the entries I’m submitting are decent. I downvote crap entries — doesn’t everybody? What kind of ****ty entries do you think I’m submitting, anyway? In any case, with bumholes and stray bullets as powerful as they are, all those scoops get destroyed before the end, anyway.

I don’t think your entries are ****. It’s just that it’s a known fact that a person with a high buildrscore will get big scoop gains by sending almost everything as long as he’s a good writer. Your scoops gains is enough proof that you’re good at it Log in to see images!

scully Posted:

Shii – when plk and Bashy have difficulty medaling it is because they are part of a group that acts as an enemy group to other Dom klans.

And how is that? I realize I’m newer to the game, but I haven’t really seen us trolling. For at least myself, I’ve rarely engaged in that behavior, because I think that’s stupid. I have about 20 public Flamebate posts. So even if it’s true and BoD is some sort of clan who everyone hates because they’re oh-so mean and just total bumholes, everyone seems to be missing that I’m my own person and don’t care to interact in any negative capacity with anyone, for the most part.

As for chocolate scoops; if anyone’s still accusing me of getting way too many, I beg to differ. More and more people have been submitting forums and more people who care have upped their quality. We’re seeing a greater range to vote on, and seeing an end to the days of the “runaway forum” where one ends up getting as many as 200 upvotes by itself.

I have more forumbuildr score than ever, yet, I’m getting fewer chocolates than I ever used to. I win almost every week, yet I’ve been averaging only about 60 scoops a week even considering that, because of increased quantity and quality of competition, and how that results in any one person being less able to reap scoops. Basically, the exact effect I argued would at least a bit self-balance things, has come into play. I am not complaining.

Finally, Chocolate from buildr is not as strong as the other flavors. The reason even the people who have in the past got as many as 250 chocolate scoops (before others stepped up to the plate to compete) and those who actually WIN Fbduildr each week have trouble medaling is because, unlike the other colors, one cannot control at what times one gets chocolates. I become unable to hide behind the person in the scoop lead if I even play a few turns, very rapidly. Thus, while I’m eating, working, away or sleeping, I find that what happens is that scoops are added to my pile that I actually don’t want [at the time] and it attracts everyone’s stray bumholes, pretty much instantly wiping out my advantage.

Brackets are becoming larger and larger, so even a half hour of being in the lead by accident easily results in at least a couple bumholes being thrown one’s way, even those who can’t possibly have some sort of grudge.

I realize you’re still angry anyone has an advantage over you in any aspect, but you should realize it’s not particularly big for the effort devoted and addition to the game; and that you yourself surely have some skill or aspect of the game at which you have an advantage, too. The difference between us is that instead of whining and trying to have that advantage done away with, I try harder to improve at those aspects in order to compete.

I wish certain people would focus more on fixing the voting system for things like itembuildr and working on ways to make forumbuildr voting even more reliable, instead of holding up one or two people in the entire game as proof the system is broken, when even those tiny exceptions don’t have much of a lead, and in any event, that lead was built by effort and winning over hundreds of other submissions over the months.

—Bashy

scully Posted:

Shii – when plk and Bashy have difficulty medaling it is because they are part of a group that acts as an enemy group to other Dom klans.

This statement says a lot more about your feelings about BoD, Scully, than it does about BoD. Individuals in BoD often work with other players in different klans to share medals via ties or repaying an older favor from an alliance in a previous dom week. If we targeted ALL OTHER KLANS as enemy groups, we wouldn’t approach them to work together nor would they feel comfortable approaching us. I actually enjoy working with other people in other klans as long as we both do what we can to honor our agreement. Since cross-klan alliances happen almost every week, your statement is incorrect and shaded by your own personal grudges. Are we targeted by other klans as The Enemy? Sure. But a couple of outspoken individuals from large klans who enjoy pointing fingers at BoD and competing against us hardly qualifies BoD as an enemy group to every klan playing Dom.

Courtney Posted:

This statement says a lot more about your feelings about BoD, Scully, than it does about BoD…Are we targeted by other klans as The Enemy? Sure.

I have no feelings about you Courtney. I had some game based disagreements with how BoD approached things last summer, but beyond that I really haven’t spent any time thinking about you.

For clarity sake, I based my comment on the fact that there are 3 main dom klans (GGM, BF, BoD) and one that is trying to kind of get it’s crap together (WeChall.) GGM has a stated klan goal to defeat BoD. It’s on their klan page and has been the mantra since like October. BF plays for BF, but has had a sort-of alliance with GGM since October. quang has openly stated that he reserves all destruction specifically for Ricket, perhaps he is just role playing.

I have no idea who individual players make deals with, I bumume it is whoever is most likely to further their personal goals. It’s nice if the enemy stuff is all role play, it is a game after all.

Courtney Posted:

This statement says a lot more about your feelings about BoD, Scully, than it does about BoD.

scully Posted:

I have no feelings about you Courtney.

LOL. Note that I never said the word “me.” I said “BoD.” Again, your statements (unconscious mistakes?) say a lot about what you must really be thinking.

This thread just got even more interesting. Log in to see images!

FAIL Posted:

I really like scully’s ideas. I would be MUCH more likely to participate in dom if there was something else to work towards other than just medals, and all of the e-peen/ability ideas make being in a klan for dom much more of a team effort and less individual (which makes a ton more sense than how it is now IMO).

I’m not going to pretend like I know much about scoop cap problems or specific things like that, but what I DO know about (more than most I’d say) is how dom used to be, and how boring it currently is since the only thing to work towards is a medal that essentially goes away every season. There doesn’t feel like there is much of a team aspect, other than “I won’t attack you if you don’t attack me” and “let’s pwn forums at the same time.”

Pretty much this. I think that Scully’s ideas are fairly solid. Klans with a lot of medal-centric players can still manage to pull off a small amount of cherries every week without losing any solo efficiency, as long as those players just coordinate and play during the same 6 hours. Klans with fewer medal-centric players and more collectors or klan pride can raid for the klan **** instead. I think the only change I’d make is to either remove the cherry cards or fully separate them from the regular dom stuff. I’d prefer the cherry scoops be issued into a klan pool before being banked or whatnot, and that pool could be used for klan warfare stuff by the admin/officers/special warfare rank rather than having individual players have the scoops but be unable to use them for medals or purchasing cards. What’s the point of splitting them to individual players?

I can’t speak for the changes for Pistachio/Chocolate/Vanilla/Antifreeze, since I haven’t played Domination in ages. Arguments for and against changes to the first three have been covered by everybody else already, so I’ll talk about AF scoops. I think Antifreeze is kind of a **** solution as a flezz sink. It’s prohibitively expensive for new players now, and from what I hear most people use a script to get their daily scoops. As I discussed in tubmails with Aldo, this is only not a bannable offense because even CZ recognizes that they’ve made a completely unfun piece of **** a requirement to play their endgame, rather than the mostly unfun gameplay that the rest of FWZ has. Honestly, how are they not making changes to how these scoops are handled when they practically admit it should be a random amount of flezz gain/loss per day with no user interaction?

As for the BoD/Scully drama going down, I think you guys should try to tone it down a bit. BoD, if I know you guys are infamous for having players that everybody else gets bumhurt about, you should know it too. Didn’t you guys recently add MercWithMouth to the klan? It’s probably impossible to keep personal considerations out of a game balance discussion, but it would be great if people would try their best to consider what changes could make the game better as a whole rather than what would be to their advantage. I’m not accusing anybody here, but I see it happen in pretty much every game balance community.

Getting back on the subject of the proposal, I have to agree that I don’t really see the point. Maybe I’m missing something.

Why would thirteen people in any klan basically take a hit to their chances in Dom to build up cherry scoops for the klan? Why would any other klan care about the cherry scoops another klan might be saving up?

If raiding as no impact on Dom, why limit it at all? Why not let big klans raid 24/7? I agree with Inconnu, in that any equipment rewards would have to either be overpowered or basically inconsequential at this point to the end game players this is supposed to be entertaining. If we’re going to remove the Dom from klan raiding, we may as well remove the scoops from it and make it something completely separate.

But, other than general male reproductive organishness (which there is plenty of, admittedly), why would anyone try to blow up another klan’s cherry scoops? If the goal is to gain maximum cherry scoops, you’re only hurting yourself to spend cherry scoops doing it, and you’re only hurting your chances at Dom to spend any other scoops to do it.

As for the banking and spending, I think I’m missing something. First, if you’re spending the scoops you need to reach a higher level, why wouldn’t everyone reach the highest level they want before spending them? At the costs you’ve suggested, how many people are going to try? How many players want to raid for a month to get someone else an ePeen, with the promise that after twenty months of getting other people ePeens, they’ll probably get one?

As far as regular Domination goes, the biggest problem I have is that everything comes down to ten minutes at the end. Miss those ten minutes, and you may as well not even try. Aside from infinite klan raiding, that’s what I’d consider the biggest problem.

But, as far as Chocolate goes, I will say, INCIT is part of the system. If chocolate scoops end up being limited, saying ‘except INCIT’ is just leaving a whole for someone to eventually exploit. INCIT counts and if there are caps, INCIT should be included in those caps. If too many submissions means too many scoops, it might be worthwhile to make only some number of a person’s ‘best’ submissions count, but making them pick which of their submissions is going to be ‘good’ in any week is turning chocolate into the new gambling scoop. People with good submissions certainly get more chocolate scoops, but an idea that gave 25 scoops last week might get you 1 scoops this week before getting -5’d. At least until the inherent randomness of voting is resolved, don’t do anything to chocolate scoops. It’s not like it’s causing a problem, despite everyone’s best efforts to break them. If it’s not broke, why try to fix it?

naughty-mayhem Posted:

If too many submissions means too many scoops, it might be worthwhile to make only some number of a person’s ‘best’ submissions count, but making them pick which of their submissions is going to be ‘good’ in any week is turning chocolate into the new gambling scoop. People with good submissions certainly get more chocolate scoops, but an idea that gave 25 scoops last week might get you 1 scoops this week before getting -5’d. At least until the inherent randomness of voting is resolved, don’t do anything to chocolate scoops. It’s not like it’s causing a problem, despite everyone’s best efforts to break them. If it’s not broke, why try to fix it?

While I don’t necessarily believe that chocolate needs a nerf with regards to buildr, I think the easiest solution to this objection would be that your X highest performing submissions give you scoops, rather than your first X submissions. So, once X unique submissions pbum Y votes each, earning Y votes on other submissions won’t give a scoop, but earning Y+Z votes still will regardless of which submission gets there first.