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Business Why isn't the clearest rule on Flamebate ever enforced?

Leechbait

Avatar: 38669 Mon Nov 03 13:38:26 -0500 2008
15

[Grey Goose Mafiosi]

Level 30 Troll

“Permafail”

we can encougar discussino while being on one side of trolling the mods

the mods can be incosnistent with bans and be completely trolling the player base

which one is worse

Samildanach

Avatar: 143751 Tue May 19 21:18:21 -0400 2009
11

Level 34 Hacker

“43 4f 44 45 20 4d 41 53 54 45 52”

Leechbait Posted:

we can encougar discussino while being on one side of trolling the mods

the mods can be incosnistent with bans and be completely trolling the player base

which one is worse

Your post saying

Leechbait Posted:

this is clearly an imeperetive and command stragiht from CZ and everyone who ahsn’t followed it should be baned immediately

the mods do it a lot

so start with them imo

was intended to start an intelligent debate of the rules and how they were applied, and not to allow you and other players to vent about being angry with the mods and/or make a Point about how unfair whatever action you’re actually mad about might be?

Pull the other one – it’s got bells on.

Leechbait

Avatar: 38669 Mon Nov 03 13:38:26 -0500 2008
15

[Grey Goose Mafiosi]

Level 30 Troll

“Permafail”

actually i was wondering why more people WEREN’T banned and not why certain people WERE

hobo is a cool poster but he doesnt care about him being banned and honestly i dpnt give a **** either

Samildanach

Avatar: 143751 Tue May 19 21:18:21 -0400 2009
11

Level 34 Hacker

“43 4f 44 45 20 4d 41 53 54 45 52”

Leechbait Posted:

actually i was wondering why more people WEREN’T banned and not why certain people WERE

hobo is a cool poster but he doesnt care about him being banned and honestly i dpnt give a **** either

If you’re really serious, your method of phrasing the question is seriously lacking. I cannot possibly take that first post seriously as a question, given the hyperbole and call for mod-banning.

-MLF-

Avatar: 83146 Sun Jan 18 18:56:12 -0500 2009
6

Level 60 Hacker

“Cracking Addict”

Samildanach Posted:

“Posting an exact listing of what defines what will encourage people to find a way to break the spirit of a rule while ****ing how they maintained the letter.”

So instead of having a defined line, that people may work around, we’re not going to have any line at all. What brilliant logic.

Samildanach

Avatar: 143751 Tue May 19 21:18:21 -0400 2009
11

Level 34 Hacker

“43 4f 44 45 20 4d 41 53 54 45 52”

MeatLoafFan Posted:

So instead of having a defined line, that people may work around, we’re not going to have any line at all. What brilliant logic.

There’s a line. Most people know when they’ve crossed it – they just pretend otherwise for CYA and to rile up support.

It’s defined by common sense, unfortunately, which is lost on a lot of people (and I’m not excluding moderators here). All rules require adjudication, and the wasted effort on defining every boundary case will just turn out to be useless as people press new boundary cases.

CASE A) Mods spend many meetings coming up with an exhaustive list of defining characteristics for a “shock image.” For lulz, ITROLLU4202010 posts an image that is clearly a shock pic, but evades those characteristics. Mods get yelled at for banning ITROLLU4202010, are accused of partisan modding, get internet lawyers up their bumholes pointing out how it “broke no rules” and have to update the list.

CASE B) Mods say “Don’t ****ing post shock images.” For lulz, ITROLLU4202010 posts an image that is clearly a shock pic. Mods get yelled at for banning ITROLLU4202010, are accused of partisan modding, get internet lawyers up their bumholes pointing out how there is no clear definition of a “shock pic”, mods sigh and move on.

One of these requires a mbumive investment of time and effort in a distasteful activity, and both yield roughly the same result in practice. Is it any surprise that the latter is preferable?

-MLF-

Avatar: 83146 Sun Jan 18 18:56:12 -0500 2009
6

Level 60 Hacker

“Cracking Addict”

Samildanach Posted:

There’s a line. Most people know when they’ve crossed it – they just pretend otherwise for CYA and to rile up support.

It’s defined by common sense, unfortunately, which is lost on a lot of people (and I’m not excluding moderators here). All rules require adjudication, and the wasted effort on defining every boundary case will just turn out to be useless as people press new boundary cases.

CASE A) Mods spend many meetings coming up with an exhaustive list of defining characteristics for a “shock image.” For lulz, ITROLLU4202010 posts an image that is clearly a shock pic, but evades those characteristics. Mods get yelled at for banning ITROLLU4202010, are accused of partisan modding, get internet lawyers up their bumholes pointing out how it “broke no rules” and have to update the list.

CASE B) Mods say “Don’t ****ing post shock images.” For lulz, ITROLLU4202010 posts an image that is clearly a shock pic. Mods get yelled at for banning ITROLLU4202010, are accused of partisan modding, get internet lawyers up their bumholes pointing out how there is no clear definition of a “shock pic”, mods sigh and move on.

One of these requires a mbumive investment of time and effort in a distasteful activity, and both yield roughly the same result in practice. Is it any surprise that the latter is preferable?

Fine. How about, examples of what a shock picture would consist of? How about there’s a clause such as “Regardless of the above definitions, if you have posted an obvious shock picture, we will ban you”. That’s not creating a solid line, it’s creating a very foggy one, people have a sense of when they’re pushing it, and it’s still the moderators complete choice.

Samildanach

Avatar: 143751 Tue May 19 21:18:21 -0400 2009
11

Level 34 Hacker

“43 4f 44 45 20 4d 41 53 54 45 52”

MeatLoafFan Posted:

Fine. How about, examples of what a shock picture would consist of?

You’ve never seen a shock picture? Seriously? This term is somehow unknown to you?

MeatLoafFan Posted:

How about there’s a clause such as “Regardless of the above definitions, if you have posted an obvious shock picture, we will ban you”.

Then people would **** that the rule isn’t creating a solid line, but instead defining a very foggy one, and pretend they don’t have a sense of when they’re pushing it, blaming it all on a moderator’s (always incorrect) decision. Having “examples of rulebreaking” followed by “And we’ll ban you even if these examples don’t apply” is functionally equivalent to not having the examples.

MeatLoafFan Posted:

That’s not creating a solid line, it’s creating a very foggy one, people have a sense of when they’re pushing it, and it’s still the moderators complete choice.

The reason people are calling for more exact rules is to make it less “the moderator’s complete choice.” That is, generally, the purpose of written law – to remove the chance for abuses of power from those who adjudicate and enforce the law. In normal society, when we’re talking about people’s actual lives and rights, I’m generally in favor of limitation on executive power. In an online game’s trolling RP forums… less so.

-MLF-

Avatar: 83146 Sun Jan 18 18:56:12 -0500 2009
6

Level 60 Hacker

“Cracking Addict”

Samildanach Posted:

In normal society, when we’re talking about people’s actual lives and rights, I’m generally in favor of limitation on executive power. In an online game’s trolling RP forums… less so.

In normal society, we also have “Obstruction of Justice”.

Sergeant Cid

MODERATOR
Avatar: 167814 2011-07-31 00:46:27 -0400

[The Airship]

Level 35 Re-Re

Scientifically Proven Terrible fabulous person..... Evidence shows mbumive build up of semen deposit in bum.

An important thing to remember is, that even when the new rules are posted, they are not in any way going to be considered limitations on what the Mods can police. They will simply be guidelines so that the average player gets a better understanding of what is and isn’t allowed.

Granted, if it’s not perceived to be an intentional offense, I expect there will be leniency.

But actively looking for loopholes to exploit them won’t be tolerated.

-MLF-

Avatar: 83146 Sun Jan 18 18:56:12 -0500 2009
6

Level 60 Hacker

“Cracking Addict”

Sergeant Cid Posted:

They will simply be guidelines so that the average player gets a better understanding of what is and isn’t allowed.

Imo, this is a perfect example how the rules should look, instead of “Don’t post shock”.

Also, I’ve begun to implement a glossary, here. Maybe something similar will be useful for terms like “shock”, and “trolling”.

Leechbait

Avatar: 38669 Mon Nov 03 13:38:26 -0500 2008
15

[Grey Goose Mafiosi]

Level 30 Troll

“Permafail”

Sergeant Cid Posted:

But actively looking for loopholes to exploit them won’t be tolerated.

what about starting threads designed to trol lspecific players ion a non-rp forum even though they produce actual discuson which could have been the interent

Sergeant Cid

MODERATOR
Avatar: 167814 2011-07-31 00:46:27 -0400

[The Airship]

Level 35 Re-Re

Scientifically Proven Terrible fabulous person..... Evidence shows mbumive build up of semen deposit in bum.

Leechbait Posted:

what about starting threads designed to trol lspecific players ion a non-rp forum even though they produce actual discuson which could have been the interent

You’d have to show me an example of this before I made my decision.

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Inertia

Avatar: 60995 Fri Apr 03 12:59:05 -0400 2009
34

[Shii is gay]

Level 35 Troll

also wow i have no male reproductive organ

Fran Posted:

tbh turning Ayn Rands a trollable forum and making GRP a RP-only forum would be the best solution.

Indeed, I concur, etc.

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