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Shovel Warri-
or

Avatar: 137232 2009-09-21 10:03:19 -0400

Level 33 Emo Kid

“Zorba the Bleak”

Amasius Posted:

Maybe the Itembuildr items should be separated in low- and midlevel stuff sold in shops and top-tier items only available in Kyoubai.

this.

scullyangel

Avatar: 44656 Mon Aug 17 23:47:33 -0400 2009
35

[Good Omens]

Level 39 Camwhore

If I was a gila monster you could be my devil ray.

I think what tends to be overlooked is the underlying “this change will make this other thing pointless.” It doesn’t mean that CZ can’t do whatever, we are all aware that it is their game and they can do whatever. The Master Ball thing doesn’t have any impact on any character of mine that I still play, but I can see how insanely frustrating it is for some people.

Every time a change is made that instantly devalues the effort based things in the game, the players who want to play a game lose interest. It is not simply a bawwww moment, it is a matter of constantly making game goals pointless.

If the Master Ball is going to show up in the Ppwn Shoppe, none of this matters. If it is coded to never show up, yes, it is definitely a sort of screw you to those who have been working on the flezz peen as well as being a game skewing power item that a select group have allowing them a fairly solid end game advantage. I guess we’ll just have to see.

scullyangel

Avatar: 44656 Mon Aug 17 23:47:33 -0400 2009
35

[Good Omens]

Level 39 Camwhore

If I was a gila monster you could be my devil ray.

Amasius Posted:

Maybe the Itembuildr items should be separated in low- and midlevel stuff sold in shops and top-tier items only available in Kyoubai.

That is not a bad idea at all really.

ET – I think you don’t play any continuing multiplayer games. You constantly look at things from the perspective of someone who plays in a closed game environment where it is easy to push a reset bumon or go back to a save place. You made e-peens, you set up leaderboards, you set up an end game that relies on enhancing a character and playing differently than one needs to in the base game. How can you be shocked that players get annoyed when you shift some game mechanic you’ve put into place that suddenly undermines months worth of visits?

meeeeeeeeee

Avatar: 15443 2010-04-04 18:27:25 -0400
49

[Brainfreeze]

Level 35 Troll

Sneakily vicious and filled with virtuous pit bulls.

Evil Trout Posted:

You ignored the whole part where I said repeatedly that I was going to be fixing things with the wacky items. And how I even mentioned I would be changing the price. And the whole thing about how we never guaranteed any item from itembuildr would make it into the game.

As part of your balance changes, you gifted a minority of players with a huge game advantage, which invalidating weeks of other players efforts. Was that intentional? More importantly, would you have avoided it if you could?

Evil Trout Posted:

Are… you serious? It’s not the way the economy is run. It is a blip that happened that is almost invisible as far as the economy is concerned. I just said it’s like the real world, you win some and you lose some. The game is far from being completely based around bugfixes.

Yes… I am. By economy I should have said flezz leaderboard, i.e. the competitive aspect of your economy. Your blip is my 2 more months of grinding. The rest of it is a morbum since there are no incentives to collect flezz beyond the ability to equip yourself with all the best items, which doesn’t take long. So after you’ve got your items, it’s either leaderboard, or marbles and raffle tickets. To my shame, I chose the former (though not on my main, who’s already had a few too many knocks to my efforts, gratis of yourself)

Evil Trout Posted:

You don’t know what you’re talking about.

Perhaps, but I think my suggestion is different to the one you think I made.

Evil Trout Posted:

Let’s say I buy item A. Then I sell it to player B in Kyoubai. That player sells it to another player C in Kyoubai. That player equips it.

Do you realize how complicated that refund is to track? I’d have to unequip the item from C, refund C’s money, refund B’s money then refund A’s money. It’s insanely complicated because I don’t track items in specific paths like that.

No, I suggested a simpler solution – only look at the last link in the chain – the players who own the item. That’s why I also said that such a fix would actually add flezz to the economy – since the kyoubai seller would be keeping their profit, which may be desirable anyway, up until we have large numbers of them traded on kyoubai at hugely inflated prices.

If the player has a Master Ball, search for their last Master Ball purchase transaction (Itembuildr store or Kyoubai) and refund. If they have multiple, refund for the last X related transactions.

meeeeeeeeee edited this message on 04/19/2009 8:43PM

Possibly a C-
abbage

Avatar: 76887 Fri Oct 24 03:39:44 -0400 2008
9

[Leafy Green Vegeta-
bles
]

Level 35 Hacker

Herbaceous, biennial, dicotyledonous , and flowering.

I think things should actually be left exactly the way they are, as concerns itembuildr. One of the major points of itembuildr in the first place was to create a sort of speculative market for secondary sales for discontinued items. If the master ball turns out to be a hugely profitable item to sell on the secondary market, that will only fuel encourage more people to buy more and more of the next itembuildr item that will probably disappear in a month or so.

People buying way, way more of an item than they need from the Itembuildr store? That can be an significant flezz sink. Particularly if those people are so happy at the results of doing so, that they do it even more the next time. People buying master balls for 1,000,000   in kyoubai doesn’t add or remove any flezz from the economy (it just takes it from player A and gives it to player B), but somebody buying master balls from the Co-Op is sinking flezz. Somebody buying a lot of master balls is sinking a lot of flezz.

Why do we care if player A ends up with all of the flezz from players B, C, D, and E? It’s not like players B,C, D, and E don’t have a say in the matter, and it’s not like it’s hard for anybody playing this game to get tens of millions of flezz in addition to the best items in the game for every slot (except the headset). It’s not like there’s any value in flezz for endgame players other than “making the number go up”, so a speculative “invest in itembuildr items” game is a great gameplay vector for people interested in making the number go up.

Honestly, we need more things in the game that are awesome, expensive to buy from NPCs, and are only there for a limited time. We need more things in this game for endgame people to play with, and “playing around with virtual economies” is a lot of fun for some people.

Possibly a Cabbage edited this message on 04/19/2009 9:52PM

EVECHARM

Avatar: 114577 Tue Feb 17 05:11:14 -0500 2009
14

[pizza party]

Level 35 Emo Kid

“Cutty Cutterson”

I say put the items back into the shop or another week, then take them out again. since you said it yourself you can’t really do refunds, you might as well give everyone a fair chance with them.

This would work out great, cause of course Everyone is going to stock up on a ton of them, and then when the item does go away, with all the master balls on the market, they won’t be a item that went from 300k to well over 1 million, it’ll go from like 300k to 500k at most.

Or at least say Speical items like dragon balls and master balls will at least be in the ppwn shop or not! if they will be at least people will know they don’t have to spend a million + if they want one instead of making people waste all there flezz just in case.

Acid Flux

Avatar: 6767 Tue Mar 17 11:41:54 -0400 2009
20

[Country Kitchen an-
d Flea Market
]

Level 35 Troll

KYOUBAI IS SUPER-SERIOUS BUSINESS

EVECHARM Posted:

I say put the items back into the shop or another week, then take them out again. since you said it yourself you can’t really do refunds, you might as well give everyone a fair chance with them.

Everyone already had a fair chance at them. Each and every player, except for those that just recently started playing, had the same opportunity as everyone else. Whether they had the resources to capitalize on it, or chose to capitalize on it is a separate issue.

Why not bring back the Falcon Plaque quest? That was pretty unfair to everyone, since there were a limited number and it was for a limited time. And that was pure luck, no notice whatsoever, no hint, no nothing. And it was over within about 2 hours.

There were plenty of warning signs. Those that failed to look for them or believe them missed out on an opportunity by making their choice.

Or at least say Speical items like dragon balls and master balls will at least be in the ppwn shop or not! if they will be at least people will know they don’t have to spend a million + if they want one instead of making people waste all there flezz just in case.

Who’s making anyone waste any Flezz on anything? Is the Master Ball a required item to complete any part of the game? Absolutely not.

Let’s go one step further. The Wireless Headsets weren’t announced ahead of time, so I want those items to be removed from the players that own them, and give them a refund. Then, I want a 30 day notice before they become available again in Kyoubai, so that we can all try to get as much Flezz as possible to have a chance at winning them when they’re auctioned off again.

Hey, and while we’re at it, let’s reopen some of the E-Peens that aren’t currently available. We didn’t get any notice that they would have limited availability, right? That wasn’t very fair.

If you missed the boat on this, sorry to hear that. But I refuse to be penalized simply because some people have regrets that they didn’t capitalize on a potential investment.

First it was accusations that the Mods had ‘insider information’. Now that that’s been shut down, now it’s ‘give everyone a second chance.’

Fine. If the Master Balls are put back into a Shop, then I want a 500,000 Flezz consolation award for each and every Master Ball I own. And I demand that I still retain possession of those Master Balls, to do with as I please. By giving away a free ‘second chance’, this is directly interfering with my choice of investments.

But that’s a ridiculous demand, isn’t it?

Acid Flux edited this message on 04/19/2009 10:51PM

Possibly a C-
abbage

Avatar: 76887 Fri Oct 24 03:39:44 -0400 2008
9

[Leafy Green Vegeta-
bles
]

Level 35 Hacker

Herbaceous, biennial, dicotyledonous , and flowering.

EVECHARM Posted:

I say put the items back into the shop or another week, then take them out again. since you said it yourself you can’t really do refunds, you might as well give everyone a fair chance with them.

This would work out great, cause of course Everyone is going to stock up on a ton of them, and then when the item does go away, with all the master balls on the market, they won’t be a item that went from 300k to well over 1 million, it’ll go from like 300k to 500k at most.

Or at least say Speical items like dragon balls and master balls will at least be in the ppwn shop or not! if they will be at least people will know they don’t have to spend a million + if they want one instead of making people waste all there flezz just in case.

Why do you want to eliminate what little risk there is in the nascent player economy? Don’t tell us anything and let items come and go as they will. Risk-takers will alternatively make a lot of flezz or lose a lot of flezz, and nobody’s obligated to take any of these risks. If you’re afraid of losing flezz by buying a lot of them and seeing them get nerfed, and remain in the co-op forever, don’t buy a lot of them. If you’re afraid of buying one for 2 million flezz when you could maybe turn around tomorrow and get one from ppwn for a quarter of the price, don’t spend 2 million flezz on it. Nobody needs a master ball, you can pwn every level 35 forum with no consumables without one; and people shouldn’t really be able to get all the best things in the game with minimal effort, expense, or risk.

I would actually like it if every single NPC store item were subject to replacement by a comparable itembuildr item, so that maybe someday in the future the only way to get earbleeders or tumorous kidneys is through kyoubai. Limited time content that’s potentially acquirable by any current player is one of the best ways to get flezz moving in the economy.

EVECHARM

Avatar: 114577 Tue Feb 17 05:11:14 -0500 2009
14

[pizza party]

Level 35 Emo Kid

“Cutty Cutterson”

Possibly a Cabbage Posted:

Why do you want to eliminate what little risk there is in the nascent player economy? Don’t tell us anything and let items come and go as they will. Risk-takers will alternatively make a lot of flezz or lose a lot of flezz, and nobody’s obligated to take any of these risks. If you’re afraid of losing flezz by buying a lot of them and seeing them get nerfed, and remain in the co-op forever, don’t buy a lot of them. If you’re afraid of buying one for 2 million flezz when you could maybe turn around tomorrow and get one from ppwn for a quarter of the price, don’t spend 2 million flezz on it. Nobody needs a master ball, you can pwn every level 35 forum with no consumables without one; and people shouldn’t really be able to get all the best things in the game with minimal effort, expense, or risk.

I would actually like it if every single NPC store item were subject to replacement by a comparable itembuildr item, so that maybe someday in the future the only way to get earbleeders or tumorous kidneys is through kyoubai. Limited time content that’s potentially acquirable by any current player is one of the best ways to get flezz moving in the economy.

Why in the world should the shops be risk based? That’s not getting flezz moving in the economy thats just letting rich people abuse the system unfairly

Why should someone be able to get 2000% worth of a item they bought just because it suddenly went away with barely any warning. I mean heck there is one master ball going for 6 million + right now.

Deciding when to sell a moar file that you spend your visits to earn to get the most for it should be risk based, not just buying a item in a shop.

Just buying items isn’t risk, even if they lower the stats or items a bit, there’s no way the item is sudden;y going to absolutely plummet making the investor poor. Removing the item just create a absolut insane and unfair demand then there ever was for the item and basically abusing the system.

EVECHARM

Avatar: 114577 Tue Feb 17 05:11:14 -0500 2009
14

[pizza party]

Level 35 Emo Kid

“Cutty Cutterson”

Acid Flux Posted:

The Wireless Headsets weren’t announced ahead of time

ET came in IDC, said he put one up, and linked it and had mcb put a link in flamebate, and it was a 72 hour auction. that’s pretty much warned, and it’s not like headsets were available all the time before hand.

Acid Flux Posted:

Hey, and while we’re at it, let’s reopen some of the E-Peens that aren’t currently available. We didn’t get any notice that they would have limited availability, right? That wasn’t very fair.

A blog post on twitter the day before and ET in IDC himself telling everyone that its started. That’s a hell of a lot more warning then something speculated 40 days ago.

Acid Flux Posted:

If you missed the boat on this, sorry to hear that. But I refuse to be penalized simply because some people have regrets that they didn’t capitalize on a potential investment.

First it was accusations that the Mods had ‘insider information’. Now that that’s been shut down, now it’s ‘give everyone a second chance.’

Fine. If the Master Balls are put back into a Shop, then I want a 500,000 Flezz consolation award for each and every Master Ball I own. And I demand that I still retain possession of those Master Balls, to do with as I please. By giving away a free ‘second chance’, this is directly interfering with my choice of investments.

But that’s a ridiculous demand, isn’t it?

First of all how are you honestly being penalized? you may have bought them with a little hint of them going away, but that never stopped you from putting them on kyoubai and selling them for slightly higher with your frug. you wouldn’t be losing any money on how much they were worth. You just wouldn’t get a completely unfair advantage of a broken factor of the game due to ET changing something on a whim (2000% mark up on a master ball is pretty god damn broken)

and like the pro said (or meeeeeee) this wasn’t available for everyone, not everyone had 30+ million to put out to hold on to master balls, only a very few amount of people have that money to just spend on holding a item.

And as for getting 500k for each masterball, come up with a actual valid reason anyone should be given money, I don’t think you paid 800k for each masterball in the first place, and putting them back in the shop wouldn’t make your masterballs worth -200k.

ET created a problem in the first place, He tried to fix it and created a bigger problem. Your only blind to it cause your trying to capitalize on it in a way that is completely and utterly blown out of proportion (2000% flezz increase) it needs to be fixed, in a better way.

Possibly a C-
abbage

Avatar: 76887 Fri Oct 24 03:39:44 -0400 2008
9

[Leafy Green Vegeta-
bles
]

Level 35 Hacker

Herbaceous, biennial, dicotyledonous , and flowering.

EVECHARM Posted:

Why in the world should the shops be risk based? That’s not getting flezz moving in the economy thats just letting rich people abuse the system unfairly

Why should someone be able to get 2000% worth of a item they bought just because it suddenly went away with barely any warning. I mean heck there is one master ball going for 6 million + right now.

Deciding when to sell a moar file that you spend your visits to earn to get the most for it should be risk based, not just buying a item in a shop.

Just buying items isn’t risk, even if they lower the stats or items a bit, there’s no way the item is sudden;y going to absolutely plummet making the investor poor. Removing the item just create a absolut insane and unfair demand then there ever was for the item and basically abusing the system.

What I’m asking for is the creation of something that qualifies as an “investment” in the game. A .moar file will never be an investment, as forums are not removed and .moar files only become less rare as time goes on and more people get them (and people who already extracted them get extras).

In order for something to work as an investment, it has to have limited availability. Either there were few of them created in the first place, or it was available for a time and now it is gone. The best way to do this is “remove luxury items from shops after a time.” Nobody needs a master ball to do anything of significance in this game, so you’re not hurting anybody if you make them not available anymore. The alternative would be “making certain .moar files stop dropping” which would be more of a problem. As long as everything is always available from NPC shops, there will be a ceiling on the prices for those items, i.e. “however much you can get them for with max frugality, plus a small markup”. But to really make the player economy interesting, there has to be issues of scarcity. Pink Floyds and Earbleeders will never be scarce. Headphones are, hopefully some day Master Balls will be.

Also, you talk about “the rich abusing the system”? How are they abusing anything? From the description of itembuildr from the onset it was clear that items would be in the co-op for a limited time and only the best would make it into the game via permanent NPC stores. People, having read and informed themselves thought that “well, there’s no store for special items, so they don’t have anywhere to go” and then reading ET saying “I’m going to be rolling out changes for itembuildr tomorrow” put one and one and one together and thought “hey, maybe I should buy some master balls”. It’s not abusing anything, it’s just “being informed” and “anticipating something happening.” Informed people who correctly anticipate things happening should be able to cash in from this.

Plus, what are they abusing? For this to be considered “abuse” someone or something has to be hurt by it. It’s no great tragedy if people spend too much flezz on anything or if there are certain items that people can’t get (as these are things that are already happening, that have nothing to do with itembuildr.) It’s not even risk-free, since if itembuildr kicks out a special item better than the master ball, people may not be able to get “what they paid for them in the first place” for their piles of master balls. Plus, it’s not really a problem when the rich get richer. Beyond the point where “you have all the items you want”, flezz is pretty meaningless. The only use for it is “getting more flezz”. If people who had everything they wanted used their flezz to make more flezz, I’d say that’s entirely a good thing.

There is no scandal here. ET has done everything he should do as concerns master balls. If he does anything along the lines of “refund people” or “warn people that certain items would be returning/leaving”, that would be absolutely the wrong thing to do. It would punish people who took initiative and reward people for whining. Terrible precedent to set.

Remember, not everybody should be able to get everything. Sometimes the only thing that makes something special or worth acquiring/holding onto is “Not everybody can get one of these.” “I was there for that!” limited edition stuff is an entirely fair way to reward your long tenured characters. And “I got this item that most people will never have!” is a great milestone with a really rewarding sense of accomplishment. Not only should ET not “fix” what happened here, ForumWarz really needs more things like “MasterBall-gate”.

Possibly a Cabbage edited this message on 04/20/2009 12:05AM

EVECHARM

Avatar: 114577 Tue Feb 17 05:11:14 -0500 2009
14

[pizza party]

Level 35 Emo Kid

“Cutty Cutterson”

I’m just gonna sum it up. Improper warning made master balls go from around 300k to selling out immediately at 1.8 million and one even going for over 6 million, this is way blown out of proportion. And ET won’t even say if the things are in the ppwn shop. Headsets had warnings flamebate posts and 72 hours to bid on it, the donors had a 24 hour notice and ET came on the day in IDC and annouced it, item buildr said something in the initial post, that was over 40 days ago that items might go away, the difference, at least you knew WHAT DAY something was happening.

now whats even a bigger Log in to see images! is the fact that people think this is a investment, like forumwarz has always been about flezz investments.

The donor plaque isn’t a flezz investment, it’s a peen, the special items weren’t about flezz investments, they were just unique equipment. This is a brand new path ET is going down, and I think this is more then he was expecting.

You guys seem to want a way to spend your flezz after getting a peen. this is only going to give the rich people, even MORE flezz to sit on and do nothing with, this is making it worse!

Possibly a C-
abbage

Avatar: 76887 Fri Oct 24 03:39:44 -0400 2008
9

[Leafy Green Vegeta-
bles
]

Level 35 Hacker

Herbaceous, biennial, dicotyledonous , and flowering.

EVECHARM Posted:

now whats even a bigger Log in to see images!

It is an investment. The problem with the forumwarz economy in the kyoubai era is that there really weren’t any investments, so prices for everything on kyoubai just went down until they hit one floor or another. It may be the first time an item was a good investment, but that’s not a reason that it’s bad. That’s a reason that it’s good, and that we need more things like this. The problem is that there just aren’t *enough* things that work as investments.

Personally, I would like to see ET put in place the following framework:

-Any Itembuildr item that “better” than the best item in its clbum available from an NPC shop or a quest everybody can do, will be considered closely as to whether or not it’s worthy of inclusion in the game outside of itembuildr (at the risk of power creep).

-If an item that is “better” than the previous best item in its clbum is not considered worthy of inclusion in an NPC shop, that item can be removed from the consumer’s co-op at any point after, say, two weeks with no warning.

Remember, people who stocked up on master balls aren’t clearly winners here. If you’ve got 50, you might be able to sell one for 5 million flezz, but are you going to be able to sell all 50 for that? As the people most desperate to get one get theirs, the price is probably going to go down (as demand does). Plus, if a better item comes along (entirely possible), they may not be able to recoup what they spent. I mean, people who stocked up on Dragon Balls in order to resell them later at a profit probably weren’t feeling too good when the Master Ball showed up.

I personally could care less about the flezz leaderboard peen, but I think that “using the economy to turn x [currency] into y [currency] where y>>x” is a really fun, and interesting aspect of virtual economies and fun sub-game in any multiplayer game that features an economy. From my perspective, the primary weakness of forumwarz to this point was that it lacked such an economy, and what happened with master balls is simply a step in the right direction. I mean, I would like to play the “turn x flezz into 10x flezz” game, you might not, but what’s your reason for arguing that people who like that sort of thing shouldn’t be allowed to play that game? The problem with flezz piling up was more “I have nothing to do with it”, and “playing the economy in order to make more flezz” is absolutely something to do with it.

Possibly a Cabbage edited this message on 04/20/2009 12:49AM

Evil Trout

MODERATOR
Avatar: 35 2023-04-24 23:24:10 +0000

[Crotch Zombie]

Level 21 Hacker

this site is deader than the toddlers in my basement

Wow, I’m way too tired to respond to all of this tonight. I’ll be back tomorrow.

Sarcasm Inc

Avatar: 124937 2010-01-24 16:34:47 -0500
22

[pizza party]

Level 69 Hacker

Not needed anymore now that we have the SarcMark

Evil Trout Posted:

Wow, I’m way too tired to respond to all of this tonight. I’ll be back tomorrow.

I don’t blame you. Some of this is getting beyond silly.

Maybe it’s just because I’m relatively new, but I’m not seeing what the problem is here. Half the fun of FWZ is that things happen unexpectedly. Everyone seems to be treating this like it’s not a game. I’m sorry to break it to you, but something that requires you to type ‘I am not easily offended’ into it before you can enter is not ‘serious bizness’.

EVECHARM

Avatar: 114577 Tue Feb 17 05:11:14 -0500 2009
14

[pizza party]

Level 35 Emo Kid

“Cutty Cutterson”

if master balls don’t come back ever, 5 million? expect that price to keep rising, unless something better comes out, BUT your still going to have people paying a lot for them to just collect them like they do to collect moar files. even if they bought, 1000 of them, do you honestly see them losing money on it? even if they had to, they could still sell them to the ppwn shop only losing like 50-100k a piece after making a few million on the ones that they did sell.

masterballs have turned into nintendo wiis at christmas and nintendo just said they are never going to make any more. prices aren’t going to go anywhere but up till the wii 2 comes out (which ET said in the blog they fixed the stat picking stuff so that is doubtful) or they become readily available again or at least say they will(ppwn shop)

and there will never EVER be another item, that inflates like this, Because not that everyone knows for a fact, that they will go away, with no real warning while they sleep, everyone is going to stock up on them when they do go away, yes the price might rise when they do and peoples stocks of the item start to get low, but your never going to see a item sell for 235k one day, and 6 million the next, again.

This isn’t going to make kyoubai a turn x-flezz into 10x-flezz investment market. This is just the fallout of 99% of the users being blindsided that items aren’t in the consumer co-op anymore

EVECHARM edited this message on 04/20/2009 2:23AM

LROSENBERG19-
96

Avatar: Tight Skirt
35

[WeChall]

Level 69 Camwhore

“Venereal Biohazard”

From now on I’m going to buy every item from the coop…

Shoot The Mo-
on

Avatar: 50637 Wed Apr 01 23:03:10 -0400 2009
100

[The Last Stand]

Level 69 Hacker

“Trojan Horse Magnum”

Another idea that people will hate – No selling of Master Balls or Dragon Balls on Kyoubai, except by management.

Acid Flux

Avatar: 6767 Tue Mar 17 11:41:54 -0400 2009
20

[Country Kitchen an-
d Flea Market
]

Level 35 Troll

KYOUBAI IS SUPER-SERIOUS BUSINESS

EVECHARM Posted:

Acid Flux Posted:

The Wireless Headsets weren’t announced ahead of time

ET came in IDC, said he put one up, and linked it and had mcb put a link in flamebate, and it was a 72 hour auction. that’s pretty much warned, and it’s not like headsets were available all the time before hand.

So, 72 Hours to get ready for the most expensive item that the game had ever seen? That sure is unfair to the players that had only started recently, isn’t it? How were they supposed to have a ‘fair chance’ at buying that item?

EVECHARM Posted:

Acid Flux Posted:

Hey, and while we’re at it, let’s reopen some of the E-Peens that aren’t currently available. We didn’t get any notice that they would have limited availability, right? That wasn’t very fair.

A blog post on twitter the day before and ET in IDC himself telling everyone that its started. That’s a hell of a lot more warning then something speculated 40 days ago.

Read what you just wrote. One day notice is more or better warning than 40 days notice? Ridiculous.

And it was stated, from the beginning, that items would eventually be removed from the Co-Op store and placed into the appropriate stores. There was no ambiguity about that. And since Special Items don’t have a specific store (other than maybe the Ppwn Shoppe), I made the bumumption that they would have limited availability, and I was right. All the other items (except for the moar files, which I haven’t started selling yet) have been placed into their appropriate clbum-specific stores.

EVECHARM Posted:

Acid Flux Posted:

If you missed the boat on this, sorry to hear that. But I refuse to be penalized simply because some people have regrets that they didn’t capitalize on a potential investment.

First it was accusations that the Mods had ‘insider information’. Now that that’s been shut down, now it’s ‘give everyone a second chance.’

Fine. If the Master Balls are put back into a Shop, then I want a 500,000 Flezz consolation award for each and every Master Ball I own. And I demand that I still retain possession of those Master Balls, to do with as I please. By giving away a free ‘second chance’, this is directly interfering with my choice of investments.

But that’s a ridiculous demand, isn’t it?

First of all how are you honestly being penalized? you may have bought them with a little hint of them going away, but that never stopped you from putting them on kyoubai and selling them for slightly higher with your frug. you wouldn’t be losing any money on how much they were worth. You just wouldn’t get a completely unfair advantage of a broken factor of the game due to ET changing something on a whim (2000% mark up on a master ball is pretty god damn broken)

Completely unfair? I’ve got a Master Ball selling right now with no minimum reserve Guess which one it is?

I’m not forcing anyone to buy the item, and neither is ET. It is not a required item, by any stretch of the imagination, it is purely a luxury item

As far as how I’m being penalized, I chose to take an investment risk based upon the public information, and I am now capitalizing on my successful prediction. I found an avenue for financial advancement, based upon my own research and my own chosen risk.

Nothing I did violated any rules in anyway, nor was it unfair to any other player. I made my choice, based on the information at hand, and it worked to my advantage.

Answer this, please: If the Dragon Balls had been reduced in base cost to fall in line with the Master Balls, and been devalued, would you be supporting a full refund for those that had extras on hand and had made a poor investment decision? What about all the people that sold the Junk Books in Episode One before it was announced that they would be valuable equipment in Episode Two? Would you support a petition to have them reintroduced as random junk deliveries? Or how about returning all the Junk Books they sold so they get a second chance?

EVECHARM Posted:

and like the pro said (or meeeeeee) this wasn’t available for everyone, not everyone had 30+ million to put out to hold on to master balls, only a very few amount of people have that money to just spend on holding a item.

So now it’s unfair because some players had more disposable income than others? I’m sorry, that’s a completley invalid argument. It is not anyone’s responsibility to ensure that another player has sufficient resources to take advantage of an opportunity when it presents itself.

EVECHARM Posted:

And as for getting 500k for each masterball, come up with a actual valid reason anyone should be given money, I don’t think you paid 800k for each masterball in the first place, and putting them back in the shop wouldn’t make your masterballs worth -200k.

I can come up with 1.8 million valid reasons. In the current state of the market, my investment is worth a LOT. If the market is changed, then by your logic, compensation for the value of the items should be considered. Whether the price for an item is set as a base cost in the shop or by the market demand, it is still a value to be considered. At the moment, the average value for the Master Ball is 1.8 Million. That’s not set by ET, that’s set by the Buyers in the Market.

Why should one market shift be compensated retroactively, and not the other?

If ET puts the Master Balls back on sale in the Co-Op, then he is giving a ‘credit value’ to those that chose not to buy them when they were first available. At the same time, he would be taking away the current value (as dictated by the current market) of my reserve of Master Balls.

Also, you have no idea what I paid for each Master Ball. For all you know, I bought out all of the Buy It Nows on Kyoubai as soon as I saw that they weren’t in the Co-Op anymore. Or I didn’t buy them at Max Frugality. You don’t know how many I have nor how much I paid for them, so you really aren’t in a position to discuss the original value of my investment.

EVECHARM Posted:

ET created a problem in the first place, He tried to fix it and created a bigger problem. Your only blind to it cause your trying to capitalize on it in a way that is completely and utterly blown out of proportion (2000% flezz increase) it needs to be fixed, in a better way.

I’m not setting the price increase. Evil Trout isn’t setting the price increase. The market is.

I’m simply offering the product, for sale, in the current market, with either a minimum reserve (usually 250,000) or in one case, absolutely NO RESERVE.

I am allowing the players to decide what the current value of that item is.

Additionally, I will remind you that I sold 50+ Master Balls at or below their cost to me when they were first introduced.

So, to recap:

1. There was a 40 day prior notice that items in the Co-Op Store were not permanently going to be in that store.

2. There was never any mention that any other ‘warning’ would be given about when the items would be ‘discontinued’.

3. The Master & Dragon Balls were Special Items, and (along with the moar files) are not normally seen in a ‘Regular Store’.

4. I (and other players) decided to take a risk and invest in these items. Those of us that had larger reserves of Flezz were able to invest more into this speculation, which is common sense.

5. We waited, hoping that we chose wisely. We knew that one possibility was that ET would never get around to taking them out of the Co-Op (thereby making our investment virtually pointless), or that he would revalue the Dragon Balls to be less than the Master Balls (thereby significantly devaluing half of the items we had purchased on speculation). In other words, we chose to take a financial risk.

6. The items were removed from the Co-Op, and now their value has increased, as demonstrated by the Buyers willingness to pay for these items.

I personally see absolutely no problem with this chain of events No deception, no insider information, nothing but simple speculation. And there are countless parallels in the real world to this situation.

You say that I’m ‘blinded’ to the situation because I’m trying to capitalize on it. I say that you’re ‘blinded’, because you cannot capitalize on the situation.

And that’s simply not my fault.

Acid Flux

Avatar: 6767 Tue Mar 17 11:41:54 -0400 2009
20

[Country Kitchen an-
d Flea Market
]

Level 35 Troll

KYOUBAI IS SUPER-SERIOUS BUSINESS

Shoot The Moon Posted:

Another idea that people will hate – No selling of Master Balls or Dragon Balls on Kyoubai, except by management.

Now that would be funny.

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