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Business I just voted on 10 pages of forum submissions.

Fortunato

Avatar: 72902 2010-02-03 18:45:17 -0500
32

[Grey Goose Mafiosi]

Level 51 Troll

ZOMBIE CANNONBALL OF GORE

Considering only one can win per week, can we reduce the maximum number of submissions per player?

Langston Jon-
es

Avatar: 57155 2011-07-31 00:44:38 -0400
9

[To Your Scattered -
Raepdogs Go
]

Level 35 Camwhore

We are foe.

Agreed.

meeeeeeeeee

Avatar: 15443 2010-04-04 18:27:25 -0400
49

[Brainfreeze]

Level 35 Troll

Sneakily vicious and filled with virtuous pit bulls.

Considering forum submissions are the ones which get the most voting activity, it’s an obvious place to concentrate all those excess submissions, since you can resubmit the same forums each week. Create a bunch of forums and keep reusing = guaranteed chocolate scoops for dom.

They need to be capped.

Ricket

MODERATOR
Avatar: 4300 2011-11-01 00:56:47 -0400
100

[The Scrotal Safety-
Commission
]

Level 69 Troll

Good poster, upvoted.

meeeeeeeeee Posted:

Considering forum submissions are the ones which get the most voting activity, it’s an obvious place to concentrate all those excess submissions, since you can resubmit the same forums each week. Create a bunch of forums and keep reusing = guaranteed chocolate scoops for dom.

You say this like it’s somehow harder to be funny and get votes for, iunno, enemy avatars, than it is anywhere else.

If you have a ton of submissions, and you really want to use them all, you will. And if your buildr score is like, 25+, you’ll generate a lot of chocolate scoops wherever you put them, ‘cause you’re probably p funny and people vote for your stuff.

meeeeeeeeee

Avatar: 15443 2010-04-04 18:27:25 -0400
49

[Brainfreeze]

Level 35 Troll

Sneakily vicious and filled with virtuous pit bulls.

No, I’m saying it’s easier to reuse entries for forum suggestions week after week, since other areas require ideas to be adapted or created from scratch, and with forum suggestions it’s a simple copypasta. Effectively making it a dumping ground for average (but not bad enough to be immediately voted out) ideas whose sole purpose is to gather chocolate scoops for dom, if you run out of time or inspiration elsewhere, or simply can’t be bothered that week.

I haven’t been carefully tracking how forum submissions are going, but I do see alot of the same ideas when I bother to vote. A cap on forum idea submissions makes sense even if there’s the possibility of stuffing the ballot just for the purposes of dom.

meeeeeeeeee edited this message on 03/23/2009 5:38PM

Inertia

Avatar: 60995 Fri Apr 03 12:59:05 -0400 2009
34

[Shii is gay]

Level 35 Troll

also wow i have no male reproductive organ

It looks strange seeing ron paul arguing with another ron paul Log in to see images!

Bashy

Avatar: 97127 Tue Jan 06 09:47:16 -0500 2009
37

[The Scrotal Safety-
Commission
]

Level 69 Troll

platypus.

Fortunato Posted:

Considering only one can win per week, can we reduce the maximum number of submissions per player?

This is probably a bad idea. Allowing everyone to increase their buildr scores through time, quality and effort over time gives people to do, and incentive to do it. More entries in the pool isn’t at all necessarily a bad thing, since the most popular entries will still float slowly up to the top to be viewed slightly more often than the “bad” or unpopular ones.

More entries, pages of them even, also reduces the chance that inferior suggestions will get through, since the user has a lot more to look at to “compare” which entries are “good” and to choose one or more that speak more directly to them.

No one is forcing anyone to vote for any entries. Seeing that there are ten pages of them therefore shouldn’t feel like an obligation. Long-term, with more players, the same result will roughly occur if you voted on 10 pages or 2.

More entries also means it’s more work for people to “cheat,” mbum downvote, or cherry-pick their votes. This is clearly a good thing.

meeeeeee Posted:

Considering forum submissions are the ones which get the most voting activity, it’s an obvious place to concentrate all those excess submissions, since you can resubmit the same forums each week. Create a bunch of forums and keep reusing = guaranteed chocolate scoops for dom.

They need to be capped.

You’re not understanding how things work. Just because you have a ****load of entries, does not mean they will get voted on. In fact, you may spend a year and a half of damn good submissions to be able to submit 100 pretty good forum ideas, but by the sheer fact that you did so, each one, individually, will get fewer votes. Most people lose interest in voting rapidly. Plk has one of the highest buildr scores, and many of her entries may only get one scoop per week. With more entries in the pool from other people, possibly less. Considering the amount of effort it takes to make a decent entry that can “survive,” a scoop or two in a week doesn’t seem broken.

You get an advantage for having more entries, but that advantage decreases in scope proportionally to how many you actually submit. This seems ideal. Even if we were to lower submissions, why not, say, halve people’s buildr scores? Why call for an outright cap, when caps, when hit, take away any incentive for improvement? Who would do such a thing?

PROFILE:

meeeeeeeeee[Brainfreeze]

Vitals

Clbum: Troll

Level: 35

Cred: 100000000

Buildr Score: 1 <—————

Oh. I get it. *rolleyes*

[Mod note: Everything up to the rolleyes was just fine. I’m retroactively reminding buildr posters to keep things civil, because some users complained about the tone of this post. —JB]

Bashy was banned for this post by Evil Trout

Bashy edited this message on 07/23/2009 2:25PM

meeeeeeeeee

Avatar: 15443 2010-04-04 18:27:25 -0400
49

[Brainfreeze]

Level 35 Troll

Sneakily vicious and filled with virtuous pit bulls.

Bashy Posted:

Oh. I get it. *rolleyes*

Of *course* you’ll defend your advantage *rolleyes*

Fortunato

Avatar: 72902 2010-02-03 18:45:17 -0500
32

[Grey Goose Mafiosi]

Level 51 Troll

ZOMBIE CANNONBALL OF GORE

Were chocolate not a part of the equation, I would propose charging 10 buildr points per forum idea submitted. Thus, it would be much more difficult to flood. However, since chocolate is a part of the equation, I would admit I am somewhat befuddled. I’ve taken advantage of the flood of chocolate myself from time to time. Is chocolate powerful with a high buildr score? Yes. Is it strong enough to beat a coordinated effort from a large and reasonably well organized klan? No. I tied with plk last season because GGM had a good 7 players in my final bracket and we worked together to make sure we got what we wanted.

Does this alter the fact that Bashy and plk are simply flooding the forum entry pile with everything they can, throwing everything at the wall and seeing what sticks? No. The psychology that most players who submit to buildr are submitting under is that you have one good idea and submit it until it wins. Obviously this strategy is flawed and the better strategy is to get a score of 10-20 and just submit like crazy around 10-11 PM sunday night (maybe save a few for monday). Who cares if your idea is derivative or uninteresting? All that matters is winning. Right?

Bashy

Avatar: 97127 Tue Jan 06 09:47:16 -0500 2009
37

[The Scrotal Safety-
Commission
]

Level 69 Troll

platypus.

meeeeeeeeee Posted:

Of *course* you’ll defend your advantage *rolleyes*

My “advantage” over someone who has… zero? Oh, it’s so unfair. I’m so sorry. Please continue promoting caps, nerfs and limits while absolutely not participating in any way in the thing about which you’re talking.

fortunato Posted:

Does this alter the fact that Bashy and plk are simply flooding the forum entry pile with everything they can, throwing everything at the wall and seeing what sticks?

Uh, you mean… that we submit forums? Like everyone else does? Yeah, we submit forums and hope something does well. I guess we’re taking advantage of something.

As for your idea of “charging 10 buildr points per entry,” uh, that’d mean I get to submit 1 this week, after winning four times and spending two months on Forumbuildr, and you’d get to submit either 1 also, or 0. I suppose this is “fairer?”

And as for your whole “blahblah here’s where I imply your ideas are lame and derivative” thing, well… I have it on much less angry authority that I’m doing a decent job, and the votes would say so as well.

People like you are basically all for democracy and meritocracy as long as you’re the one winning under it. Anything else must be cheating, a failure of the system itself, or some other explanation other than taking personal responsibility.

Bashy edited this message on 03/23/2009 9:16PM

Fortunato

Avatar: 72902 2010-02-03 18:45:17 -0500
32

[Grey Goose Mafiosi]

Level 51 Troll

ZOMBIE CANNONBALL OF GORE

Bashy Posted:

My “advantage” over someone who has… zero? Oh, it’s so unfair. I’m so sorry. Please continue promoting caps, nerfs and limits while absolutely not participating in any way in the thing about which you’re talking.

do you deny that you submit mostly forum ideas, then if nothing else keep mental notes as to which have done well and resubmit them the next week?

plk

Avatar: 9972 2010-01-24 16:28:42 -0500
65

[Brainfreeze]

Level 69 Emo Kid

“The Infinite Sadness”

Huh, I wasn’t aware that I was submitting a ton of crap. The last tubmail I got from someone from Crotch Zombie was pretty complimentary about my submissions and encouraged me to “keep up the good work.” So I think I will.

Edit: Oops, sorry, the correct quote is actually “Keep up the great work.” I wouldn’t want to misquote anybody.

plk edited this message on 03/23/2009 9:30PM

Bashy

Avatar: 97127 Tue Jan 06 09:47:16 -0500 2009
37

[The Scrotal Safety-
Commission
]

Level 69 Troll

platypus.

Fortunato Posted:

do you deny that you submit mostly forum ideas, then if nothing else keep mental notes as to which have done well and resubmit them the next week?

Not lately. Because a bunch of whiny little twits have decided to try to figure out “which entries are Bashy and plk’s,” I’ve been making all new entries. Which have also done well. Probably because, I dunno, I copied them from somewhere, or… I dunno, something that results in not taking responsibility for only the quality of your own submissions and the results they get.

meeeeeeeeee

Avatar: 15443 2010-04-04 18:27:25 -0400
49

[Brainfreeze]

Level 35 Troll

Sneakily vicious and filled with virtuous pit bulls.

Bashy Posted:

My “advantage” over someone who has… zero? Oh, it’s so unfair. I’m so sorry. Please continue promoting caps, nerfs and limits while absolutely not participating in any way in the thing about which you’re talking.

I am participating by observing the results and commenting on that. We don’t need to re-hash the critics vs creators argument do we? Your strategy is to flood buildr with forum suggestions. Basically equates to ballot stuffing, no matter how great you think your forum ideas are. Whether it sticks to the wall or not, a greater proportion of the **** is yours, and thus a greater proportion gets the votes, given how discriminating the audience is. Simple gearing. The answer to combat that is to… use the same tactic. So everyone use all their buildr entries to submit forum ideas and nothing else.

In the last 5 weeks you’ve not had a single entry accepted in any other category, even for forum ideas you won with. I didn’t check back further.

You’re gaming the system.

meeeeeeeeee edited this message on 03/23/2009 9:51PM

guest42

Avatar: Piggy Bank
18

[Bargain Drug Wareh-
ouse
]

Level 69 Permanoob

“Permanoob”

Barring people hating you and trying to sabotage your entries, why wouldn’t you keep resubmitting the same forums? If it ended with a 25 last week, odds are it will do about as good the next week and it will eventually win, even if just for a lack of anything better.

I’d rather have some pretty good forums waiting for a week with no excellent forums than have people give up and leave us with crap forums because everyone who’s at least somewhat amusing gave up because they haven’t won.

It is unfortunate if Dom obsession has lead to people trying to sabotage entertaining forum ideas because someone might get ten more chocolate scoops, as though the scoops you get from buildrs are somehow significant to the competition. Next thing you know, people will stalk INCIT to make sure that no one in their bracket ever wins and gets any scoops there, either.

Fortunato

Avatar: 72902 2010-02-03 18:45:17 -0500
32

[Grey Goose Mafiosi]

Level 51 Troll

ZOMBIE CANNONBALL OF GORE

Bashy Posted:

Not lately. Because a bunch of whiny little twits have decided to try to figure out “which entries are Bashy and plk’s,” I’ve been making all new entries. Which have also done well. Probably because, I dunno, I copied them from somewhere, or… I dunno, something that results in not taking responsibility for only the quality of your own submissions and the results they get.

Very well, they’re new. Good. You’re still filling the system up with them and thus ending up with a greater proportion of overall votes. My essential point in making this thread is not to argue the quality of your submissions (several of them I’ve actually enjoyed writing for) but rather that inevitably, in a system where we are required to vote on 15 pages of submissions, it will largely end up being a matter of whoever can submit the most, as voting on 15 pages is a pretty big chore. But I suppose you would contest that too.

Bashy

Avatar: 97127 Tue Jan 06 09:47:16 -0500 2009
37

[The Scrotal Safety-
Commission
]

Level 69 Troll

platypus.

Fortunato Posted:

You’re still filling the system up with them and thus ending up with a greater proportion of overall votes. My essential point in making this thread is not to argue the quality of your submissions (several of them I’ve actually enjoyed writing for) but rather that inevitably, in a system where we are required to vote on 15 pages of submissions, it will largely end up being a matter of whoever can submit the most, as voting on 15 pages is a pretty big chore. But I suppose you would contest that too.

Dude. Do you read what you’re saying? You’re basically saying that I’m doing something unfair by submitting the forums that I’ve earned the right to be able to submit, through quality and effort. What the hell?

I can submit 20 submissions a week. You just said there are 15 pages already of entries still alive. Since a ton get -5’ed and then don’t show up, and it’s only the first 24 hours, you can plainly see that often over 300 forums get submitted every week. How do I have some unfair advantage? Do you think that I started out with a buildr score of 14 or something? Again, I earned the right to be able to submit this amount. There are nearly 50 other people with buildr scores higher than mine. Why aren’t you ****ing at them and their unfairness? Oh, right, because they’re either your friend, or they aren’t beating you.

As for your whole “oh my god I have to vote on 15 pages of entries,” no, you don’t, unless you’re some obsessive compulsive.

Look, if I lose at Dom Fave Flava because I can only beat forums up to a streak of 80 and other people have worked their way up to being able to go up to 88, I say, “Oh well, have to do better.” I don’t sit here whining and trying to find ways to try to kneecap anyone who’s doing better than I am.

Write better and better entries until they’re what the players like, and continually improve them and create new ones when you earn the right to submit them. You’ll win eventually. By your own merit, instead of whining everyone down to your level.

If you spent as much time writing good entries as you did whining, I guarantee you’d do better.

Bashy edited this message on 03/23/2009 9:58PM

meeeeeeeeee

Avatar: 15443 2010-04-04 18:27:25 -0400
49

[Brainfreeze]

Level 35 Troll

Sneakily vicious and filled with virtuous pit bulls.

Bashy Posted:

Again, I earned the right to be able to submit this amount. There are nearly 50 other people with buildr scores higher than mine. Why aren’t you ****ing at them and their unfairness? Oh, right, because they’re either your friend, or they aren’t beating you.

They’re not submitting 100% forum suggestions to game the system for a dom advantage?

If chocolate scoops were removed from the equation, how would that alter your submission strategy?

Should other players adopt the same strategy?

How would that affect Forumbuildr in the longer term, if everyone submits just forum suggestions?

Do you think that’s a good idea?

You’re gaming the system.

plk

Avatar: 9972 2010-01-24 16:28:42 -0500
65

[Brainfreeze]

Level 69 Emo Kid

“The Infinite Sadness”

Would it make you happier if he submitted ideas to the current forum, like Grayson does, and just won that every week instead? It’s not a huge difference where you submit your ideas. If you submit them to forum ideas, that’s volatile category and you risk getting -5’d earlier. If you spread the submissions around, you might or might not get a few fewer votes, but those are safer submissions and more likely to last the week, which might mean more votes. If you don’t like that people can win by force of numbers, well fine, but I don’t think you can exactly blame the players for that when it’s not our game design and not anything we haven’t told CZ about anyway.

Fortunato

Avatar: 72902 2010-02-03 18:45:17 -0500
32

[Grey Goose Mafiosi]

Level 51 Troll

ZOMBIE CANNONBALL OF GORE

plk Posted:

If you don’t like that people can win by force of numbers, well fine, but I don’t think you can exactly blame the players for that when it’s not our game design and not anything we haven’t told CZ about anyway.

This is a post I can agree with. Do you have an idea for a fix, though?

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