Buffing everybody to counter an imbalance isn’t that great of an idea; it quickly deteriorates into DBZ-like absurd levels of boosting. Besides, when you have Trolls talking about how overpowered they are, you know it’s time for some nerfing.

That’s not to say that the problem should be solved by nerfing clbumes that are better than others, but that things need to be brought back in line with what’s reasonable. Trolls need to go down a peg or three, Camwhores need a boost, Hackers need a little buff, and what Emokids need is more of a correction than anything.

MeatLoafFan Posted:

Reposting this because it’s a valid point that everyone ignored…

I didn’t ignore it, I spent several hours working out the math and details for each of the main clbumes in order to establish a more solid metric to judge the game balance.

As it turns out Hackers do indeed appear to need a damage buff, but bantering about the base damage itself as ‘proof’ is intentionally misleading.

Adapt Posted:

I agree, regardless of power the hacker refresh rate is abysmal. I sometimes get down to like bg on my hacker with no ability to use. Log in to see images!

You can prevent that by doing better at picking a cycle. If your Hacker is end-game (Which, incidentally, is what we’re mostly talking about here), then there’s an attack cycle on the previous page that you can use.

SimplyTHEBEST edited this message on 03/02/2009 12:27AM

Adapt Posted:

I agree, regardless of power the hacker refresh rate is abysmal. I sometimes get down to like bg on my hacker with no ability to use. Log in to see images!

On refresh rate alone, it is impossible to be driven any lower than bg2.

MeatLoafFan Posted:

My point was that the 2 best Hacker attacks are refresh 6, and should be changed to refresh 1.

That would kill the Hacker’s unique refresh-management gameplay. Hackers need stronger attacks, but their strongest attacks should still have long refreshes.

MeatLoafFan Posted:

My point was that the 2 best Hacker attacks are refresh 6, and should be changed to refresh 1.

That would boost the Hacker’s average base damage per attack to 162.5, which would result in an attack power of 1973 damage per hit on EQ alone and 2606 damage per hit with 51 points on offense.

That would make the hacker do plenty of damage (Most likely too much, if you factor in their close-second-best defense stat), but also rob the Hacker of any sort of unique or interesting play mechanics. We don’t want to do that.

The Hacker needs a buff, but when that buff comes it will be in the form of boosted base damage. The long refresh times are staying.

zagerblag Posted:

Better attack loop: ipz->avtr->X->404->avtr->X->avtr->repeat, where X cycles between Recipes, Ophelia, and flipr. This produces an average damage of 129.0 per attack.

Use this in the meantime.

——

zagerblag Posted:

Trolls and Camwhores don’t have anything unique, unfortunately.

I’m working on that:

SimplyTHEBEST Posted:

Camwhore:

2: Have charisma boost healing abilities (But not healing items) the same way that offense boosts attack power. This would provide a reason for Camwhores to put points into the healing tree, instead of just going right for the pix.

4: Optionally, reduce cooldown on It’s Playtime! to 1 round.

zagerblag Posted:

That would kill the Hacker’s unique refresh-management gameplay. Hackers need stronger attacks, but their strongest attacks should still have long refreshes.

Its lame how the first 2 or so attacks are strong, but you have to use so many worthless attacks to get to use them again. When you go from about 3k damage down to like, 700 or so it becomes tedious to attack. As in, it takes so much longer than other clbumes to pwn forums. Making their attacks stronger wouldn’t really do much, I mean to balance it there would have to be several attacks with near similar strength. Think of that when going though the story, you would reach the top of a short plateau instead of climbing a hill. And in the end that’s no different from using two different attacks with a refresh rate of 1.

Lower refresh rates, don’t worry so much about strength.

edit: not saying they should be 1 in particular, but they shouldn’t be as high.

SimplyTHEBEST Posted:

That would boost the Hacker’s average base damage per attack to 162.5

170.5, actually, including Recipes.

Crinkz Posted:

About the Emo Kid defense problem.

How about a skill you get when you become a emo kid, called “cut”.

Cut would raise your offense by x, but lowering your max ego by y%, and defense by z.

Would be hard to code, but it’d be a better way to play a emo imo.

Would be easier just to lower defense emos get. But still the defense gain from .moar files still makes it hard to lose ego.

EDIT: Oh and cut is stackable BUT, when you die you lose its effects. Thus solving the Geronimo! problem.

Would Cut time out? Also, would this replace the current Emo low-health mechanic?

Adapt Posted:

Its lame how the first 2 or so attacks are strong, but you have to use so many worthless attacks to get to use them again. When you go from about 3k damage down to like, 700 or so it becomes tedious to attack. As in, it takes so much longer than other clbumes to pwn forums. Making their attacks stronger wouldn’t really do much, I mean to balance it there would have to be several attacks with near similar strength. Think of that when going though the story, you would reach the top of a short plateau instead of climbing a hill. And in the end that’s no different from using two different attacks with a refresh rate of 1.

Lower refresh rates, don’t worry so much about strength.

edit: not saying they should be 1 in particular, but they shouldn’t be as high.

How would buffing their attacks not really do much? Can you clarify? I think your logic is deeply flawed.

zagerblag Posted:

How would buffing their attacks not really do much? Can you clarify? I think your logic is deeply flawed.

Because then you would have attacks that were too similar. The attack rates would have to be almost the same to counter the refresh rate. And that just seems pointless. Simple enough for you?

SimplyTHEBEST Posted:

You make a false bumumption there; it’s not the point on the Y axis that matters, it’s the area under the curve.

You can achieve the same average damage with one or two strong attacks with long refreshes, so I don’t know why you think the attacks would have to all be “too similar”.

K, I’ll trust you on this one then, that’s just how it appeared to me. I know that you actually have run numbers on this.

Crinkz Posted:

”Would Cut time out? Also, would this replace the current Emo low-health mechanic? ”

Cut would have no recharge time, but the defense and ego loss would have to be fairly high so useing it to many times would be dangerous. And yes, this is meant to replace the current Mechanic.

Sorry, I was asking whether the effects of Cut would time out.

Crinkz Posted:

Ahh, I say they wouldn’t unless you go to 0 ego. And that would only apply if you had Life After Death on.

I think Emos should work how they do now. The Geronimo problem can probably be solved by making the boss thread actually invincible, and I think the current Emo mechanics work fine.