[quote]Balloon Posted:

It’s not exactly the same being. It maybe seen as the same but the idea is twisted. Our horned god became devils of the new religion…. which at the time was Christianity. And when you think about it… which came first Satanism or Christianity?

As for the names… what’s in a name? I hear more about Cenunnos. Cerne, and Herne and not of Lucifer (Morning Star) or Beelzebub. But there are so many accounts of the those names. Heavenly god? Fallen Angel? Sounds less like pagans and more like Christianity talk.

Also it interesting to note that there is no mention of this “devil” in the old testament. p/quote]

All good points. And Satanism came first. The word Satan didn’t come out until the age of Xianity. But his images, ideals and concepts come from thousands of years before, to the earliest of all known religions.

They do, I’ll admit. There’s a list of all the names of Satan in the S. Bible, but I’ve let a friend borrow it for the time.

Also note that you don’t really see the devil as a “punisher” as you do a tempter in the New Testament. All the fire and brimstone speeches didn’t begin until the medieval age.

[quote]Sneaky27 Posted:

Interesting. I believe in those same ideals. I’m not a satanist of any stripe. I simply don’t believe in religion. There is no one path to enlightenment, and consequentially all paths contain some grain of truth. Why limit myself to one?[/quote]

I asked myself the same question for a long time. In the first chapter of the Satanic Bible, Anton Lavey points out that if you find yourself agreeing with everything in the book, you are already a Satanist. I essentially picked up a book that had written down almost everything I value. After reading it, I thought, what would be different, except that I have a name for myself?

Now, Anton is a bit heartless at times…that’s not me. But the core message is something I agree with strongly.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not trying to convert you…it’s not in my moral code. But you might enjoy reading the Satanic Bible. If nothing else, it’s an interesting read.

[quote]Uplink Posted:

Reading your comments, it seems you know quite a few things. And you seem quite keen to protect your comments on the subject. And here I am attacking you

I went through the Satanic Bible when I was somewhere around 18, and it didn’t sound like what I expected. I actually liked some of it. But… I didn’t like the title: the Satanic Bible. The role Satan played in my upbringing makes that title repulsive. Then again, I find any form of organized religion (by any name) repulsive. The philosophy is fine. Giving it a name and forming a group, one that bears the name of something that we were taught as being really awful… not the best idea out there. Don’t call it a religion, don’t mention gods and daemons, and by any means don’t call it a bible. [/quote]

Thank you for your tact.

I must admit that, though Satanism predates Xianity, a lot of Satanists I run into make it seem as if it’s one big battle against Jesus. It is, by Satanists themselves, often times polarized with Xianity, what with the Bible and the Ten Commandments and the priests and whatnot. I don’t see it that way. Many of my close friends are Xians. A few Xians I’ve met have even been well-read, intelligible, enlightened human beings, seeking truth and wisdom. I don’t see Xians individually as evil, of course (at least not always Log in to see images!, but I do see the institution itself that way. It’s designed to repress, oppress, and control.

I could see how that could be a turn-off. But it was actually one of the things that attracted me to it. The fear, the unknown aspects of the religion drew me to explore it further. I grew up with a strong Xian upbringing, and was very active in my church for many years. I even planned to become a monk for five years, then a minister. But it slowly came crashing down around me when I was 15, and I came to see the world as it was. That was a painful time for me. So, Xianity played a role in my upbringing that makes it…repulsive may be too strong of a word, but it come close.

Xianity has it’s good points, but its stereotypes are usually quite bad. I see Satanism as taking these negative stereotypes and turning them inside out. Self-loathing is replaced with self-empowerment. Constant fear of an intangible being is replaced with full confidence in and responsibility for oneself. Proselytizing is replaced with respect for people’s various beliefs. And, my favorite, hierarchy is replaced with intellectuality.

As for me personally, I’ve never been to a gathering of Satanists of any kind. The only “religious” practice I partake in is personal meditation. There really aren’t that many to be found in Laveyan Satanism. Black mbumes are only done to mock organized religion, and they are done rarely. We don’t summon demons or Satan, because, while we believe in universal energy, we don’t believe in the actual singular beings’ existence. In fact, I’m the only Satanist I know that I haven’t met over the internet. It kind of sucks, sometimes.

Jonro Posted:

All good points. And Satanism came first. The word Satan didn’t come out until the age of Xianity. But his images, ideals and concepts come from thousands of years before, to the earliest of all known religions.

They do, I’ll admit. There’s a list of all the names of Satan in the S. Bible, but I’ve let a friend borrow it for the time.

Also note that you don’t really see the devil as a “punisher” as you do a tempter in the New Testament. All the fire and brimstone speeches didn’t begin until the medieval age.

Ok… but where did this ideals and concepts come from? Certainly not from paganism. The image… yeah, I see where they got that from. That’s been addressed.

And personally, I don’t see a devil as a tempter. I don’t believe in the devil. But I’m taking it as a story… eh, I don’t care one way the either I’m reading Star Trek novels.

I have yet to see an intelligent presentation of Modern Satanism in this thread. The OP is a theistic Satanist, a branch of the religion that is mired in oral tradition and superstition that is reverse engineered for 16th century catholic symbolism. Theistic Satanism is more of a heretical denomination of Christianity than anything else.

LaVey was a marketing genius who knew that by incorporating the works of Crowley, Agrippa, and Horodatus into his book “The Satanic Rituals” he could effectively run a hedonistic sect and keep himself rolling in vice and cash. LaVeyan Satanism is more about suitheistic existence where man answers to himself first then to his collective group with which he works. They use Satan as a symbol of that which is considered taboo or reprehensible by society, they are basically Atheists with funny clothes, pomp and ritual.

Luciferianism is a sect of Satanism that tries to worship the Judeo-Christian fallen angel Lucifer as the bringer of light and knowledge to man kind. Which at first sounds like a perfectly reasonable explanation until you realize that like the theistic satanists I mentioned above they are little more than a heretical sect of Chrisitanity.

I am agnostic, I think all religion, including Atheism and Suitheism is bull****.

Xylon Posted:

I have yet to see an intelligent presentation of Modern Satanism in this thread. The OP is a theistic Satanist, a branch of the religion that is mired in oral tradition and superstition that is reverse engineered for 16th century catholic symbolism. Theistic Satanism is more of a heretical denomination of Christianity than anything else.

The OP?

Theistic Satanism? Umm…sort of. But not really. The bumyrians, Al-Yezidi and Babylonians go back further than that.

Xylon Posted:

LaVey was a marketing genius who knew that by incorporating the works of Crowley, Agrippa, and Horodatus into his book “The Satanic Rituals” he could effectively run a hedonistic sect and keep himself rolling in vice and cash. LaVeyan Satanism is more about suitheistic existence where man answers to himself first then to his collective group with which he works. They use Satan as a symbol of that which is considered taboo or reprehensible by society, they are basically Atheists with funny clothes, pomp and ritual.

Pretty much, yeah. Except most of us aren’t suitheistic.

Xylon Posted:

Luciferianism is a sect of Satanism that tries to worship the Judeo-Christian fallen angel Lucifer as the bringer of light and knowledge to man kind. Which at first sounds like a perfectly reasonable explanation until you realize that like the theistic satanists I mentioned above they are little more than a heretical sect of Chrisitanity.

Also commonly known as devil-worshipers. Pretty much, yeah.

Xylon Posted:

I am agnostic, I think all religion, including Atheism and Suitheism is bull****.

Pretty much, yeah.

Why is this thread unintelligent again?

Jonro Posted:

Pretty much, yeah.

Why is this thread unintelligent again?

I did not say that the thread was unintelligent, I just state that I have yet to see and intelligent post about Modern Satanist.

The Girl With Mad Skillz Yo Posted:

I see paganism as the religion before other religions (of the ones I know of). But what ideals and concepts do you speak of? I am a pagan and from what I know of the devil it doesn’t sound anything like any of the pagan traditions.

Satanism is more of an amalgamation of different symbols from around the world. His Sumerian name is Ea, also known as Enki, God of the earth.

He is also referred to as Melek Taus by the Al-Yezidis, which is a man with a bulls head.

In pages 58-60 of the S. Bible, a laundry list of names for Satan is given. Some of these names include:

Belial (Hebrew)

Ahpuch (Mayan)

Baphomet (The Knights Templar)

Dracula (Romanian)

Emma-O (Japanese)

Fenriz (Teutonic)

Kali (Hindu)

Ishtar (Babylonian)

Bile` (Celtic)

He has many similarities to the Greek gods.

Apollo: their symbols are both the peamale reproductive organ, they are the bringers of light and of knowledge, they are both often seen as a kouros, or “beardless youth.”

Pan: Satan represents indulgence, so this could be sexual, as with Pan, or…

Dionysus: ...plentiness of food and alcohol, as with Dionysus.

Hecate: Satanism also exemplifies witchcraft, as represented by the Greek god Hecate.

In page 25 of the S. Bible, most of the nine Satanic statements can be linked to a pagan god:

1. “Satan represents indulgence, instead of abstinence!” (Greek god Dionysus)

3. “Satan represents undefiled Wisdom, instead of hypocritical self-deceit!” (Several Greek, middle eastern, native American, and Norse Gods are the “bringers of wisdom” to mankind. In every other religion but Islam, Xianity and Judaism, this is seen as a good thing. But when Satan gives mankind wisdom in the Garden of Eden, it is seen as our downfall.)

5. “Satan represents vengeance, instead of turning the other cheek!” (Just read the Odyssey or the Iliad, and you will see that this was a value of Greek culture.)

This is the beginning of the “Book of Lucifer: The Enlightenment”:

“The Roman god, Lucifer, was the bearer of light, the spirit of the air, the personification of enlightenment. In Christian mythology he became synonymous with evil which was only to have been expected from a religion whose very existence is perpetuated by clouded definitions and bogus values!”

These are excerpts from Joy of Satan’s website:

“The Buddah sat beneath the “Bo Tree” and achieved enlightenment. “Bo means serpent, as in Bo-A or Boo-Ta.”¹ The Christian Church stole, twisted and corrupted everything they could from the original religions. The fig tree was known as “The Tree of Wisdom” Ficus religiosa.² The xian church corrupted this with the placing of fig leaves over the genitals of Adam and Eve. ”

“Satan in Hebrew means ‘adversary,’ but the Hebrew language was derived from other languages that preceded it by hundreds to thousands of years. The Hebrew letters are derived from Phoenician and Phoenician was derived from hieroglyphics; cuneiform- just research any text book on the origins of languages.”

“The Catholic Church knew the original religions had to be replaced with something else and this is where all of the stories in the bible came from. They are all rip-offs from the originals, which had their origins long before Judeo/Christianity ever reared its ugly head. The Virgin Mary stole from and replaced Astaroth, who was bound, as “the Lady of Heaven.” Astaroth was the most popular Goddess in the pre-Christian world. Fictitious Jehova ripped off from Enlil/Beelzebub/Baal, who was the most popular God in the pre-Christian world, and then there is our beloved Creator Father Satan/Ea who wound up as the Serpent and the Devil.”

These are only the similarities I see at first hand. I’m sure if someone were to do a more in-depth study, they could tell you even more.

Jonro Posted:

Stuff about Satanism.

Agreed… I guess. I haven’t studied any Satanic teachings. I guess it really comes down to don’t read about religion when it’s written by people of other religions. It’s as twisted my aunt’s nose hair… that was a weird family reunion.