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Evil Trout Defense

TORNBUG

Avatar: Red Green Flashing

Level 10 Troll

“Pain in the ASCII”

Seems really bad. The RP Forum did about 22-24/hit when I had a troll club. Now with a baby sealskin overcoat (7 more defense), they only do about 2-4 less damage a hit. I guess it adds up to a good amount of health over the course of the forum (about 100 or so), but +7 offense seems like it would save far more than 100 health, since I’d likely be pwning forums in 2-3 hits as opposed to 3-4. And that’s not even getting into the exorbitant repair costs for the item. Considering it costs well over 100 flezz to repair it after one forum, I’d probably be better off with a heterozygous tiger and just buying more smileprin XRXR.

It seems like defense being somewhat crappy has a lot to do with people’s problems with playing trolls.

Edit: Though, defense does seem really good in the furry forum, specifically due to the fact that that 3-4 damage getting knocked off reduces what you take by 50% or so. Defense just seems to get worse as the forums get more damaging, since it seems to just subtract X damage instead of modifying the damage by some percentage.

Thinking about it more, sometimes defense is better due to its arithmatic nature, since in the aforementioned forum, the equivalent offense boost would have to make you kill it twice as fast to save as much damage, which it likely won’t do.

This in and of itself is a good dynamic to the gameplay, but the current equipment just doesn’t leverage it. All the troll equipment except for the tiger is +3 offense and +X defense. As a troll, you have no choice except to excel against some forums and suck against others. I’m sure this applies to other clbumes as well. I think the game would benefit from making equipment cheaper and with a more diverse selection.
TORNBUG edited this message on 11/10/2007 3:13PM

InsertCoins

Avatar: InsertCoins's Avatar

[Team AWESOME]

Level 10 Troll

“Pain in the ASCII”

On the other hand, defense seems much easier to come by. I don’t think they’re supposed to be equivalent in usefulness.

eponymous_en-
nui

Avatar: Piercing Jewelry

[the abyss]

Level 10 Emo Kid

“Gloomy Gus”

InsertCoins Posted:

On the other hand, defense seems much easier to come by. I don’t think they’re supposed to be equivalent in usefulness.

Definitely not. We can see this discrepancy even when choosing character upgrades, where Defence costs substantially less points than an equivalent Offensive boost. A piece of equipment that gives on +3 Def also costs much less Flezz than one that gives you +3 Off usually, from what I’ve noticed.

That said, though, I think Defence could do with a little boost. As things stand, players may eventually end up saying “**** it” and completely ignore that stat, which kind of defeats the purpose of having it in the first place. A character that invests heavily in Defence should get some returns, even if it isn’t as much as Offence.

InsertCoins

Avatar: InsertCoins's Avatar

[Team AWESOME]

Level 10 Troll

“Pain in the ASCII”

eponymous_ennui Posted:

InsertCoins Posted:

On the other hand, defense seems much easier to come by. I don’t think they’re supposed to be equivalent in usefulness.

Definitely not. We can see this discrepancy even when choosing character upgrades, where Defence costs substantially less points than an equivalent Offensive boost. A piece of equipment that gives on +3 Def also costs much less Flezz than one that gives you +3 Off usually, from what I’ve noticed.

That said, though, I think Defence could do with a little boost. As things stand, players may eventually end up saying “**** it” and completely ignore that stat, which kind of defeats the purpose of having it in the first place. A character that invests heavily in Defence should get some returns, even if it isn’t as much as Offence.

Did you misread me or something ? Because I am pretty sure that’s what I’m saying as well

eponymous_en-
nui

Avatar: Piercing Jewelry

[the abyss]

Level 10 Emo Kid

“Gloomy Gus”

InsertCoins Posted:

Did you misread me or something ? Because I am pretty sure that’s what I’m saying as well

No, dude, I’m agreeing with you and elaborating on why I agree with you. Log in to see images!

InsertCoins

Avatar: InsertCoins's Avatar

[Team AWESOME]

Level 10 Troll

“Pain in the ASCII”

eponymous_ennui Posted:

InsertCoins Posted:

Did you misread me or something ? Because I am pretty sure that’s what I’m saying as well

No, dude, I’m agreeing with you and elaborating on why I agree with you. Log in to see images!

Alright I get it. The “definitely not” kind of confused me. Log in to see images!

TORNBUG

Avatar: Red Green Flashing

Level 10 Troll

“Pain in the ASCII”

eponymous_ennui Posted:

InsertCoins Posted:

On the other hand, defense seems much easier to come by. I don’t think they’re supposed to be equivalent in usefulness.

Definitely not. We can see this discrepancy even when choosing character upgrades, where Defence costs substantially less points than an equivalent Offensive boost. A piece of equipment that gives on +3 Def also costs much less Flezz than one that gives you +3 Off usually, from what I’ve noticed.

That said, though, I think Defence could do with a little boost. As things stand, players may eventually end up saying “**** it” and completely ignore that stat, which kind of defeats the purpose of having it in the first place. A character that invests heavily in Defence should get some returns, even if it isn’t as much as Offence.

Huh? The +1 defense upgrades cost the same as the +1 offense upgrades at the equivalent level.

Also, the heterozygous tiger gives +5 offense, the troll club gives +3/+3. The troll club costs over twice as much for -2 offense and +3 defense, and +15 douchebaggery. That makes no sense unless defense is supposed to be roughly equivalent to offense. The only item I see that fits what you’re saying is hazardous waste vs thieved identity.

eponymous_en-
nui

Avatar: Piercing Jewelry

[the abyss]

Level 10 Emo Kid

“Gloomy Gus”

TORNBUG Posted:

Huh? The +1 defense upgrades cost the same as the +1 offense upgrades at the equivalent level.

Also, the heterozygous tiger gives +5 offense, the troll club gives +3/+3. The troll club costs over twice as much for -2 offense and +3 defense, and +15 douchebaggery. That makes no sense unless defense is supposed to be roughly equivalent to offense. The only item I see that fits what you’re saying is hazardous waste vs thieved identity.

I could have sworn that in upgrades Offense costs more than Defense. I’ll check again with my next level up. Of course everything I’m saying now is based purely on my experience as an Emo Kid: accordingly, other clbumes may have it different.

Item-wise, we Emos have two tattoos that each add +20 tears and +1 off/def each. The one that gives you +1 off costs 176, while the one that gives you +1 def costs 141.

Azsedcf

Avatar: Toy Mouth

Level 16 Troll

“Pain in the ASCII”

2 of the items for the trolls are like that.

Thieved Identity – Max DB +10 – Defense +2 – 58

Hazardous Waste – Max DB +10 – Offense +2 – 76

InsertCoins

Avatar: InsertCoins's Avatar

[Team AWESOME]

Level 10 Troll

“Pain in the ASCII”

Yeah the heterozygous tiger is pretty unique in that aspect. Compare the next available items:

Stem Cell Harvesting Kit

* Max Douchebaggery +60

* Offense +3

* Defense +5

Smuggled Mexican Family of Twelve

* Max Douchebaggery +75

* Offense +3

* Defense +10

Baby Sealskin Overcoat (you already own 1)

* Max Douchebaggery +125

* Offense +3

* Defense +10

All have higher defence than offence. So I really think that defence is supposed to be easier to get than offence (see also the emo skill giving +5 defence for 9 turns, compared to the troll skill giving 3 offence for 4 turns. Oh and the emo skill heals ego as well)

TORNBUG

Avatar: Red Green Flashing

Level 10 Troll

“Pain in the ASCII”

InsertCoins Posted:

All have higher defence than offence. So I really think that defence is supposed to be easier to get than offence (see also the emo skill giving +5 defence for 9 turns, compared to the troll skill giving 3 offence for 4 turns. Oh and the emo skill heals ego as well)

The upgrades cost the same though. Also, if defense is supposed to be that much worse then why are the troll items so expensive? Especially the club. In my experience, the club was overall worse than the tiger.

Additionally, defense CAN be better than offense, point for point. It just has to be in certain forums. Losing 5 defense to the FBO attack in the furry forum doubled their damage. I doubt +5 offense would make me kill the forum twice as fast. The metal forum also seems to be kind of low in the damage department. Defense just gets worse as the forum damage goes up because it’s subtractive, and offense always modifies your turns to kill a thread by a ratio.

The way they work isn’t really the problem, the problem is just that clbumes seem to get shoehorned into specific builds, so any difference just makes the gameplay kind of dumb when you have to fight a forum that your equipment is really bad for, considering you have no choice whatsoever.

Seerow

Avatar: Skeleton Smoking

[Elitist Superstruc-
ture
]

Level 10 Troll

“Pain in the ASCII”

Defense Upgrades actually cost MORE.

Offense Level 4

* Offense +1

Cost: 15

Defense Level 3

* Defense +1

Cost: 15

My defense is one lower and costs the same?

TORNBUG

Avatar: Red Green Flashing

Level 10 Troll

“Pain in the ASCII”

Seerow Posted:

Defense Upgrades actually cost MORE.

Offense Level 4

* Offense +1

Cost: 15

Defense Level 3

* Defense +1

Cost: 15

My defense is one lower and costs the same?

I noticed the same thing, but I think the level 3 offense one also cost 15.

John Dyne

Avatar: Mother and Children

Level 7 Troll

“Jerk Chicken”

I’ve been getting my bum handed to me because I decided to pump my defense a bit in hopes it’d help me take the KKK forum better.

It didn’t. I got 5 more defense and they hit just as hard, and now I hit a bit weaker. I’m about broke from buying Smileprin and I’m not sure how to tackle it from here, since I figured I’d need the defense to help survive while I deployed the XSS thing.

Evil Trout

MODERATOR
Avatar: 35 2013-08-13 11:47:18 -0400

[Crotch Zombie]

Level 21 Hacker

I have ample evidence that ET is a weedy little twerp.

We’re definitely going to look into this in the upcoming “great rebalancing of 2007”

eponymous_en-
nui

Avatar: Piercing Jewelry

[the abyss]

Level 10 Emo Kid

“Gloomy Gus”

John Dyne Posted:

I’ve been getting my bum handed to me because I decided to pump my defense a bit in hopes it’d help me take the KKK forum better.

It didn’t. I got 5 more defense and they hit just as hard, and now I hit a bit weaker. I’m about broke from buying Smileprin and I’m not sure how to tackle it from here, since I figured I’d need the defense to help survive while I deployed the XSS thing.

Strange. I always make sure to deploy my Defence buff (+5) whenever I can because it does make a noticeable difference. Usually it isn’t much, maybe 2 or 3 points shaved off each attack, but that adds up to a fair bit saved over 9 turns.

Still, I know where you’re coming from. Log in to see images!

Cubear

Avatar: Cubear's Avatar
3

[Team AWESOME]

Level 10 Camwhore

Tubmail me a picture of your male reproductive organ, and I'll send you several pics of my naked body from every angle.

it seems that stats work exponentially to some extent

so having 7 offense and having 9 offense is greater than just 2 offenses in difference.

it probably works similarily for defense, so the more you have, the less you take.. in a serious way.

InsertCoins

Avatar: InsertCoins's Avatar

[Team AWESOME]

Level 10 Troll

“Pain in the ASCII”

Cubear Posted:

it seems that stats work exponentially to some extent

so having 7 offense and having 9 offense is greater than just 2 offenses in difference.

it probably works similarily for defense, so the more you have, the less you take.. in a serious way.

I don’t know about this. I have 18 defence and it still seems rather useless. Sure I take less damage in earlier forums, but I am still getting hit like a **** in any of the later forums.

ARMERICA****-
YEAH

Avatar: Ron Paul

Level 10 Troll

“Pain in the ASCII”

So Trout, or whoever, do forums have stats?

Do you get a modified roll after comparing a forum’s attack to your defense, or is defense just damage reduction?

Cubear

Avatar: Cubear's Avatar
3

[Team AWESOME]

Level 10 Camwhore

Tubmail me a picture of your male reproductive organ, and I'll send you several pics of my naked body from every angle.

InsertCoins Posted:

Cubear Posted:

it seems that stats work exponentially to some extent
so having 7 offense and having 9 offense is greater than just 2 offenses in difference.
it probably works similarily for defense, so the more you have, the less you take.. in a serious way.

I don’t know about this. I have 18 defence and it still seems rather useless. Sure I take less damage in earlier forums, but I am still getting hit like a **** in any of the later forums.


when you get to the last forum, we’ll have to compare damages, because holy crap was i getting wasted in there with just my 3 defense.

for an example though, for offense, Bad poetry (100 dmg) was doing 129 damage with 12 offense.
it did 139 damage with 14 offense(from my buff).

then again, bash keyboard (3-6) was doing around 33 damage with 12, and 43 or so with 14, so it seems like offense is calculated based solely upon the amount of offense you have and then added to the base damage you deal.

now to try to figure out how defense works.
Cubear edited this message on 11/13/2007 7:18AM
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